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Belvin an astronaut and a couple other

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science people from NASA which was a lot

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of fun and so I got to hang out with

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Leland a lot and it was kind of funny

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because I had been to Space Camp with

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National Geographic and so I had a Space

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Camp

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you know blue jumpsuit and I brought it

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and wore it just to make a joke out of

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it and stuff and and so he's like well

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then I'm gonna wear mine and so he wore

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his blue jumpsuit of course his is real

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and has been in space yeah it's an

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astronaut jumpsuit but that was so much

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fun so they actually get to keep them I

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think you and I had a conversation about

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that what astronauts can keep and what

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they can't keep I know that they kept

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their boots for walking on the moon

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which i think is pretty amazing yeah

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that's cool yeah and yeah they wear the

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jumpsuits a lot so Scott Kelly I got to

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interview him not too long ago and for

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his talk he wore the jumpsuit but after

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his talk he took it off so yeah so often

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I guess when they want to represent NASA

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and stuff they wear the jumpsuit which

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is kind of cool

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that's amazing so so what you you were

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filming now you tell me something about

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Blue Book what was what was the deal

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with that so that's kind of the big news

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really so it's blue book so I I did get

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to the other real quick mention cuz it

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was fun and I don't like kind of plug it

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but I got to also meet Neil deGrasse

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Tyson which was a lot of fun and this is

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kind of funny because I posted a picture

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of myself and Karen with Neil deGrasse

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Tyson then I did some video interviews

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that will come out on den of geek soon

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but everybody's posting odd he doesn't

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believe in UFOs office you have a post

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up and of course I'm way into science he

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and he's a very important scientist and

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he had some very incredible things to

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say in my interview so it was an

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absolute pleasure to meet him but guys

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you know not everybody has to be into

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UFOs and hopefully at some point if if

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we continue to have a relationship I'll

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be able to approach the topic and and

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maybe share some information with him

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but you know that wasn't what the

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interview is about

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UFOs so that was kind of funny but what

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was about UFOs was project Bluebook and

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this is kind of making some news this

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weekend it's kind of really making quite

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a few stories because History Channel is

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doing a show called Project Blue Book

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and there was an activation there at

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Comic Con and I don't know why they call

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him activations it was kind of funny I

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even met one of the guys who is in

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charge of these different activations

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and he didn't know why they called him

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activation she was even laughing at

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himself because he was like I don't know

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but an activation is essentially an

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exhibit when a television show puts

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together a cool exhibit to promote their

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show and project Bluebook I've got this

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is really cool this is a comic book that

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they gave us at the exhibit and I want

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to show you this because this is the

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most important part about Project Blue

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Book is look at this guy right here

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who's that that's dr. J Allen Hynek so

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this show is going to be centered around

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J Allen Hynek and Project Blue Book so

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you can see this is from a case 1972

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which is you know they're going over

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actual cases and depicting these cases

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so the actor is let me get his name

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eight and Gillan wouldn't really look

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like does he look a little bit like

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Hynek yeah here I've got actually a

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picture from the show and yeah look at

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him he does yeah so anyway so they made

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of that the one people that are

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listening you can what yes what's the

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show's exact name so people project

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Bluebook

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just project so they make them look like

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Hynek yet kind of has a gruff voice

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during the comic-con weekend they

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released a trailer and you can go see

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that at the History Channel page in fact

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if you go to openminds.tv/radio and in

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black about the flatwoods monster and

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about this gorman

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uf okay

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from the 1940 thank you 48 and I want to

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talk to you about that one in particular

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in a second but these are stories that

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are going to be featured on the show and

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you can see that in the trailer I mean

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essentially they did biking's which was

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huge History Channel it's a scripted

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drama and it's great if you haven't

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watched it I love it and it's a very

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well-done scripted drama you know

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high-production they're out norway and

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all of this big it feels like a movie

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every episode almost like Game of

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Thrones or something so they're doing

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the same thing with UFOs and project

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Bluebook on this television show when

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you watch it you can see there this is

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like a movie every episodes like a movie

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very high production value Aiden Gillen

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from Game of Thrones so he's huge

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Robert Zemeckis is the producer this is

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a guy who directed back to the future

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contact and other things he's a big fan

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of Spielberg and of course Hynek was

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inspired the movie Close Encounters for

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Spielberg but the other thing that

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they're gonna do and I think that's why

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they kind of focus on this men and black

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thing is that although the show's based

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on true events like they repeat and

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they're really covering some of the the

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big cases they are adding a bit of

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speculation in there in that their

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description of the show says you know

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Hynek kind of starts to suspect that

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he's just a frontman for a bigger secret

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project and they're not sharing

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everything with him and of course people

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in this field feel like that may be the

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truth not that we know that for sure nor

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do we necessarily know that he felt that

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way but that's going to be kind of some

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of the drama or some of the fiction

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added to this story but it looks really

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really good at this activation so this

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is cool

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when you first walk in they kind of

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briefed you they have a staff person

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there briefs you on what blue book was

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for people who were not aware and then

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they asked you if you had your own UFO

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sighting in my case I said yes and it

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turned out practically everybody who

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walked in was saying yes to my surprise

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and you know we couldn't hear they just

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sat us each down with our own person and

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but I can overhear people saying yeah

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I've had my own so you describe your

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sighting and then what they say is at

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the end you'll be able to pick up a

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drawing of your sighting so that was

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neat you then go through to another room

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where they cover flatwoods monster

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Lubbock lights this this Gorman instant

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incident and you can kind of hear some

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audio from the show they show you a

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trailer then you go into another room

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and they've got this cool like radar and

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stuff like that in there and you can

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send a message to space well and then

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the other side I did were your friend

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Leah of course I was friendly um I'm

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always early

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yeah but I warned him I was so friendly

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to the aliens that I told him stay away

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these humans are crazy actually I'll

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tweet what I had posted here after the

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show but I told them that humans are

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dangerous not and they eat you know

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living creatures other Earth's creatures

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and isn't that gross is what I said so

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because I figured alien - agree with me

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so I warned him to stay away on the

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other side of this room were some guys

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that were kind of in their 1950s outfits

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and they were like working supposed to

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be like Blue Book staffers or something

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but they were the sketch artists who

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were sketching out our sightings on the

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wall there was some other cool stuff

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from other real UFO sightings as well

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and I did do a facebook live of my tour

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through there so go to my Facebook and

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you can watch you know see what this

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thing was like because it was really

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cool and sure enough they did give me a

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picture of my sighting and I did post

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that @openmindtv the picture along with

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my description of the sighting that they

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depicted there so it was a really cool

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exhibit or activation as they call it in

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the comic-con world but yeah there's

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lots of stories coming out about this

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and what's cool is because it's real I

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mean it feels like x-files but this is

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now kind of like you know the The

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Godfather of UFOs a true you know

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specialist

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J Allen Hynek out there kind of doing

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the investigation so if you couldn't

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tell I'm extremely excited see that's

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coming out on History Channel that's I

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thought you said Wow mm-hmm well I sure

217
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hope you didn't give those aliens any

218
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ideas that this is a good place to eat

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you know if they were to come down here

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and this is why I think it's important

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to be vegetarian if they're to come down

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here and they're not vegetarian how are

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they to choose what to eat they'll see

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us you know do you eat this this big

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round thing or do you eat you know what

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are the creatures that you would want to

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eat so if they see us eating creatures

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are like oh this must be a thing let's

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pick up some of these guys and try them

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out and thus the cattle mutilation you

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know and I wonder if if on other planets

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everything doesn't taste like chicken

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what if it tastes like something else

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just that's unique of Earth that every

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living creature that you eat kind of

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tastes like chicken is as we say well

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well I never thought of all this stuff

238
00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:02,790
yeah way too much their brain around

239
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:04,800
oh this Gorman sighting just real quick

240
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:08,370
yes you can read about this but yeah

241
00:10:13,699 --> 00:10:11,250
it's a really early dog fight from 1948

242
00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:13,709
and it's cool at the History Channel is

243
00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:15,750
really pushing this case because it's a

244
00:10:19,220 --> 00:10:17,100
cool one and they must have read that

245
00:10:21,259 --> 00:10:19,230
when they came across these files but

246
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essentially it's this guy he was a world

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war two fighter 1948 he's with the Air

248
00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:26,670
National Guard he's flying in his p-51

249
00:10:32,780 --> 00:10:30,480
and he spots this light and orable light

250
00:10:34,879 --> 00:10:32,790
he thought it was the tail light from

251
00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:34,889
another plane but it passed near him and

252
00:10:38,660 --> 00:10:37,110
the radar controller said we didn't have

253
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anything on radar we don't there wasn't

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an aircraft that passed toward past you

255
00:10:46,579 --> 00:10:43,350
so he turns around and he kind of

256
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pursues this thing he says he gets in

257
00:10:53,389 --> 00:10:49,920
within he gets pretty close to it and he

258
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:53,399
described it as a 6 to 8 inch round

259
00:10:58,910 --> 00:10:56,160
light that there was it was just kind of

260
00:11:02,179 --> 00:10:58,920
a solid I know light seemed to be

261
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:02,189
emanated past the diameter of this thing

262
00:11:06,980 --> 00:11:04,410
so it was the characteristics of the

263
00:11:09,230 --> 00:11:06,990
light were strange and then he began to

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00:11:10,850 --> 00:11:09,240
chase it and fly around in

265
00:11:14,060 --> 00:11:10,860
banking around and doing all these

266
00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:14,070
things until it took off just you know

267
00:11:20,090 --> 00:11:17,040
was gone as we read about so many other

268
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times but he said he pursued this thing

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for 27 minutes and there were other

270
00:11:27,740 --> 00:11:25,770
witnesses involved other aircraft so

271
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:27,750
there were a lot of credible witnesses

272
00:11:33,199 --> 00:11:29,610
along with this case so it's a

273
00:11:35,150 --> 00:11:33,209
fascinating sighting just like a Foo

274
00:11:37,550 --> 00:11:35,160
Fighter what they were saying

275
00:11:40,820 --> 00:11:37,560
essentially yeah it's a boo fighter

276
00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:40,830
experience after world war ii yeah with

277
00:11:45,740 --> 00:11:42,870
this Air National Guard pilot and his

278
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:45,750
his p-51 which was a plane that was you

279
00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:48,240
know used that's that was our one of our

280
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:51,690
major I think it was a Marine the

281
00:11:57,019 --> 00:11:54,330
Marines used it for in World War two if

282
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:57,029
I'm if I'm not mistaken but someone

283
00:12:00,889 --> 00:11:58,800
could correct me but anyways it was a

284
00:12:03,290 --> 00:12:00,899
plane that we did use in World War two

285
00:12:05,060 --> 00:12:03,300
but you can add open mind to that TV

286
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:05,070
I've got a link to it to the front page

287
00:12:10,070 --> 00:12:07,440
I also tweeted it in Facebook the story

288
00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:10,080
you can also see it at the History

289
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:12,270
Channel's project Bluebook page which

290
00:12:16,540 --> 00:12:13,770
people should explore because it's

291
00:12:19,130 --> 00:12:16,550
really really neat stuff great awesome

292
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,140
anything I know we're just about out of

293
00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:21,600
time here but has any like really good

294
00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:22,980
sightings are you aware of any good

295
00:12:26,930 --> 00:12:25,110
recent sightings people are talking

296
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:26,940
about I haven't really I've been

297
00:12:31,490 --> 00:12:28,800
involved in a project I haven't really

298
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:31,500
taken a look myself there are some

299
00:12:37,780 --> 00:12:34,560
people I deciding that I've seen that

300
00:12:40,670 --> 00:12:37,790
are out there have been figured out

301
00:12:42,730 --> 00:12:40,680
essentially and I've posted about a few

302
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:42,740
of those if you go to the open minds UFO

303
00:12:49,579 --> 00:12:46,170
news group on Facebook you can see a lot

304
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,589
of those stories but yeah nothing too

305
00:12:54,769 --> 00:12:51,839
exciting in my opinion it seems like

306
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:54,779
everything has kind of been explained so

307
00:12:59,660 --> 00:12:56,730
unfortunately yeah no big sighting

308
00:13:02,690 --> 00:12:59,670
recently that I'm aware of well alright

309
00:13:03,290 --> 00:13:02,700
well hey thanks so much Alejandra my

310
00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:03,300
pleasure

311
00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:06,360
say hi to Chris great this should be a

312
00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:06,839
great show

313
00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:08,700
all right excellent all right we'll see

314
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:10,529
you next week all right talk to you

315
00:13:16,130 --> 00:13:13,170
later all right everyone so our guest

316
00:13:18,890 --> 00:13:16,140
Chris Cogswell he received his PhD and

317
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:18,900
chemical engineering focusing on the

318
00:13:26,749 --> 00:13:22,720
study of nano materials for the use as

319
00:13:29,759 --> 00:13:26,759
lists and absorbance and he kept that

320
00:13:33,210 --> 00:13:29,769
degree at North Eastern University and

321
00:13:37,170 --> 00:13:33,220
he has a bachelor's degree of in

322
00:13:38,939 --> 00:13:37,180
chemical engineering and philosophy from

323
00:13:41,129 --> 00:13:38,949
the University of New Hampshire he

324
00:13:45,079 --> 00:13:41,139
actually graduated the same year as my

325
00:13:48,929 --> 00:13:45,089
son how about that and he has a podcast

326
00:13:53,009 --> 00:13:48,939
and it's on you know basically like

327
00:13:54,809 --> 00:13:53,019
fringe science claims and science and

328
00:13:57,569 --> 00:13:54,819
it's called the mad scientist podcast

329
00:13:59,280 --> 00:13:57,579
and I can't I started listening what I'm

330
00:14:01,980 --> 00:13:59,290
gonna check that podcast out for sure

331
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:01,990
Chris welcome to the show thank you so

332
00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:02,800
much for having me

333
00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:04,870
yeah I think I got most of that right

334
00:14:10,980 --> 00:14:07,540
didn't I sort of oh yeah yeah oh yeah no

335
00:14:14,009 --> 00:14:10,990
you got it right good stuff yeah so

336
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:14,019
Chris I listened to you a while back

337
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:16,089
when you want when you were on open

338
00:14:21,389 --> 00:14:18,310
minds with Alejandro they're pretty

339
00:14:24,869 --> 00:14:21,399
pretty impressed and so but I don't

340
00:14:27,689 --> 00:14:24,879
remember listening to how you started

341
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:27,699
getting a fascination for I know it's

342
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:30,250
not just UFOs about UFOs are part of it

343
00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:34,000
so along with your science interests in

344
00:14:38,189 --> 00:14:36,430
your philosophy interests what really

345
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:38,199
led you down the path of looking into

346
00:14:45,329 --> 00:14:42,160
the UFO topic among others things so

347
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:45,339
when I was a kid I actually had what I

348
00:14:52,829 --> 00:14:49,839
would describe to be a near UFO Sun or

349
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:52,839
not maybe not a sighting even I growing

350
00:14:57,929 --> 00:14:55,839
up had very very vivid dreams I still

351
00:15:01,259 --> 00:14:57,939
had very vivid dreams seems to be

352
00:15:06,329 --> 00:15:01,269
something that runs in my family and so

353
00:15:06,869 --> 00:15:06,339
one night as you know any rambunctious 7

354
00:15:10,139 --> 00:15:06,879
year old kid

355
00:15:13,740 --> 00:15:10,149
I stayed up way too late I way too much

356
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:13,750
candy I snuck into my dad's my parents

357
00:15:20,999 --> 00:15:18,480
bedroom to watch the x-files reruns and

358
00:15:23,610 --> 00:15:21,009
just like tore into you know those

359
00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:23,620
Christmas popcorn tins yes right with

360
00:15:26,429 --> 00:15:25,180
like the difference okay just tore into

361
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:26,439
one of those right like I'm sure there

362
00:15:32,699 --> 00:15:27,850
wasn't any caramel corn left in the

363
00:15:35,699 --> 00:15:32,709
morning and I remember then falling

364
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:35,709
asleep and then being woken up later by

365
00:16:01,500 --> 00:15:36,730
a

366
00:16:03,019 --> 00:16:01,510
experiences where I would be kind of in

367
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,029
and out of sleep and I'd have a scary

368
00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:05,440
nightmare experience kind of thing and

369
00:16:08,610 --> 00:16:07,209
then I kind of just pushed into the back

370
00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:08,620
of my head you know I was like well it's

371
00:16:12,769 --> 00:16:10,180
too whatever it's weird it's a scary

372
00:16:16,980 --> 00:16:12,779
thing I don't know what happened and

373
00:16:19,710 --> 00:16:16,990
finally I started getting older you know

374
00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:19,720
maybe around 13 14 15 around that age I

375
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:21,790
asked my mom I said you know do you do

376
00:16:23,550 --> 00:16:22,930
you remember me saying anything about

377
00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:23,560
that

378
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:26,920
and my mom's explanation as far as I can

379
00:16:31,439 --> 00:16:29,290
remember it was basically yeah you used

380
00:16:34,439 --> 00:16:31,449
to get really bad fevers as a kid and

381
00:16:37,379 --> 00:16:34,449
your brain was boiling you know okay so

382
00:16:38,819 --> 00:16:37,389
basically you know I was I was in bed I

383
00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:38,829
must have had a bad fever or something

384
00:16:59,100 --> 00:16:43,480
and so for and now as an adult I kind of

385
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:06,699
today I don't think they that you know

386
00:17:12,460 --> 00:17:11,120
of other people if I could be tricked

387
00:17:14,289 --> 00:17:12,470
other people can be tricked other people

388
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:14,299
can be can be mistaken other people can

389
00:17:19,569 --> 00:17:16,850
have scary experiences and even if a

390
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:19,579
hundred you know even if nearly 99% of

391
00:17:24,579 --> 00:17:21,490
them are are just mistakes

392
00:17:26,679 --> 00:17:24,589
what if there's that 1% that is a reveal

393
00:17:29,470 --> 00:17:26,689
experience or a real case of someone

394
00:17:33,549 --> 00:17:29,480
seeing something strange at night being

395
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,559
abducted or whatever so really it was a

396
00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:35,600
mix of my own personal experiences and

397
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,289
kind of my love of science that made me

398
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:41,120
want to ask these questions more because

399
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:43,370
again you know the history of science is

400
00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:45,919
filled with these things that we thought

401
00:17:50,350 --> 00:17:48,049
were completely impossible for

402
00:17:52,090 --> 00:17:50,360
generations you know and something is

403
00:17:55,630 --> 00:17:52,100
always impossible until it isn't anymore

404
00:17:58,299 --> 00:17:55,640
right so in my mind this is kind of one

405
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,309
of those interesting questions where you

406
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:00,080
know thousands of people every month

407
00:18:07,630 --> 00:18:03,679
report sightings hundreds report things

408
00:18:09,549 --> 00:18:07,640
like direct contact and I think

409
00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:09,559
regardless again of whether or not

410
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:12,980
there's any ultimate regardless of what

411
00:18:16,750 --> 00:18:14,450
the ultimate source of those cases are

412
00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:16,760
there is something useful and

413
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,140
interesting scientifically to

414
00:18:23,020 --> 00:18:20,480
investigate here so that's kind of where

415
00:18:25,930 --> 00:18:23,030
I come from with all these questions hmm

416
00:18:28,659 --> 00:18:25,940
and I would notice on your show that you

417
00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:28,669
do other topics I saw you did Mothman

418
00:18:34,750 --> 00:18:32,390
and other things like that but on that's

419
00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:34,760
called the mad scientist podcast but you

420
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:36,500
were just before the show when we were

421
00:18:42,340 --> 00:18:39,919
checking in that will show that logo go

422
00:18:44,110 --> 00:18:42,350
ahead so just before the show when we

423
00:18:49,090 --> 00:18:44,120
were checking in you said that you also

424
00:18:51,220 --> 00:18:49,100
did another podcast and what did you say

425
00:18:54,159 --> 00:18:51,230
that had something to a science I mean

426
00:18:58,149 --> 00:18:54,169
or a base or something so we are

427
00:19:00,130 --> 00:18:58,159
starting a show with we're starting a

428
00:19:02,919 --> 00:19:00,140
show basically with Dave Scott from

429
00:19:04,299 --> 00:19:02,929
spaced-out radio we're the second

430
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:04,309
Wednesday of every month we are going to

431
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:07,280
be talking about talking about these

432
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:09,919
cases from the lens of science and

433
00:19:13,649 --> 00:19:11,890
skepticism and

434
00:19:16,770 --> 00:19:13,659
kind of questioning really some of those

435
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:16,780
ideas so we're calling them we're

436
00:19:20,970 --> 00:19:19,450
calling them reality paranormal and so

437
00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:20,980
they're gonna be going out on a Tuesday

438
00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:23,320
or Wednesday night sorry the second

439
00:19:27,779 --> 00:19:26,470
Wednesday of every month nights so be

440
00:19:28,740 --> 00:19:27,789
sure to check those out and I'll put the

441
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:28,750
links up on my Twitter page and

442
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,940
everything and give you those as well

443
00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:31,120
excellent

444
00:19:39,539 --> 00:19:35,470
okay yeah so I figured we could probably

445
00:19:41,850 --> 00:19:39,549
get this part out of the way by talking

446
00:19:45,230 --> 00:19:41,860
talking about MUFON in your short stint

447
00:19:49,649 --> 00:19:45,240
how long we were actually with MUFON I

448
00:19:50,190 --> 00:19:49,659
think I was at MUFON maybe two and a

449
00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:50,200
half

450
00:19:57,450 --> 00:19:54,340
scaramouche ease maybe I don't know see

451
00:20:00,690 --> 00:19:57,460
that was 11 days yeah I was there longer

452
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:00,700
than that I don't know he know his his

453
00:20:07,049 --> 00:20:05,440
his time is 11 days Symone right yeah oh

454
00:20:10,289 --> 00:20:07,059
so we're talking we're talking maybe

455
00:20:13,020 --> 00:20:10,299
then oh eight or eight eight to ten

456
00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:13,030
mooches of my time it would be fun so I

457
00:20:18,570 --> 00:20:14,620
was there for about I was there for

458
00:20:22,919 --> 00:20:18,580
between four and five months my full

459
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:22,929
time there was and that includes kind of

460
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:24,610
me initially getting involved in the

461
00:20:28,529 --> 00:20:27,250
organization wanted to become you know

462
00:20:30,659 --> 00:20:28,539
really want to become a member

463
00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:30,669
wanting to help do some research kind of

464
00:20:36,140 --> 00:20:32,980
trying to get a look into their reports

465
00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:36,150
and you know the books so to speak and

466
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:42,580
to my eventual resignation so but before

467
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:46,530
we talk about your resignation you had a

468
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:49,860
really good goal of getting things done

469
00:20:56,190 --> 00:20:53,770
there how was was that progressing in

470
00:21:01,980 --> 00:20:56,200
the right direction before the you know

471
00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:01,990
what hit the fan so it was it was

472
00:21:08,180 --> 00:21:06,190
progressing it was the thing with the

473
00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:08,190
thing with MUFON that I think a lot of

474
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:11,230
people not actively involved in

475
00:21:18,690 --> 00:21:14,890
investigations don't realize is that

476
00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:18,700
MUFON is really more of a it's not like

477
00:21:25,139 --> 00:21:22,360
a big very organized organization it's

478
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:25,149
very it's very

479
00:21:31,049 --> 00:21:29,200
focused on individual states and so part

480
00:21:33,719 --> 00:21:31,059
of what I was hoping to accomplish was

481
00:21:36,479 --> 00:21:33,729
trying to consolidate some of that

482
00:21:38,129 --> 00:21:36,489
energy all the you know we there are

483
00:21:40,229 --> 00:21:38,139
people in states doing wonderful work

484
00:21:42,029 --> 00:21:40,239
doing really good investigations

485
00:21:44,849 --> 00:21:42,039
spending their own time spending their

486
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:44,859
own money you know to go out there and

487
00:21:48,180 --> 00:21:46,809
do these do these investigation of cases

488
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:48,190
and things and then that information

489
00:21:53,070 --> 00:21:50,320
doesn't go anywhere it just ends up on a

490
00:21:55,049 --> 00:21:53,080
server in the basement of MUFON

491
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:55,059
headquarters yeah a lot of people

492
00:22:02,519 --> 00:21:58,690
complain about that yeah and it's a it's

493
00:22:04,769 --> 00:22:02,529
a valid complaint I mean you you would

494
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:04,779
think that with all of the cases they

495
00:22:07,469 --> 00:22:06,129
get and with all the time and everything

496
00:22:09,450 --> 00:22:07,479
that you'd be able to make something

497
00:22:13,049 --> 00:22:09,460
really useful and when I found was that

498
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:13,059
it was not a lack of information that

499
00:22:17,849 --> 00:22:14,529
stopped that from happening it was more

500
00:22:22,259 --> 00:22:17,859
of a lack of clear direction and a lack

501
00:22:23,459 --> 00:22:22,269
of energy and motivation we managed to

502
00:22:25,379 --> 00:22:23,469
probably the biggest thing that we

503
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:25,389
accomplished while there was the

504
00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:28,330
creation of a I hope it's still going

505
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:29,679
and I hope it's still available to

506
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:33,369
people and if anyone emails and it's not

507
00:22:37,019 --> 00:22:34,570
available anymore then that's a shame

508
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,029
but what we were able to do was that

509
00:22:41,849 --> 00:22:38,799
MUFON database one of the biggest things

510
00:22:43,589 --> 00:22:41,859
keeping MUFON from giving that database

511
00:22:46,049 --> 00:22:43,599
information out to other researchers

512
00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:46,059
were concerns about personally

513
00:22:50,909 --> 00:22:48,460
identifying information so you know if

514
00:22:54,659 --> 00:22:50,919
you make a UFO report you don't want

515
00:22:56,159 --> 00:22:54,669
then your name and address and cell

516
00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:56,169
phone number and everything else your

517
00:23:01,169 --> 00:22:58,570
contact info to go out to the you know

518
00:23:03,479 --> 00:23:01,179
anybody who says I want to investigate I

519
00:23:05,549 --> 00:23:03,489
want to research you don't want anyone

520
00:23:06,899 --> 00:23:05,559
to get that your information so one of

521
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:06,909
the biggest concerns was ensuring that

522
00:23:12,450 --> 00:23:08,169
that information went out to the right

523
00:23:13,979 --> 00:23:12,460
people and so and must kept safe in

524
00:23:16,859 --> 00:23:13,989
cases where we didn't want it to go out

525
00:23:18,810 --> 00:23:16,869
so we're gonna have we're gonna have to

526
00:23:21,629 --> 00:23:18,820
keep that thought if you would or write

527
00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:21,639
that down we'll get back to it

528
00:23:26,869 --> 00:23:23,820
so we're coming up on a break right now

529
00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:26,879
this is Martin Willis of podcast UFO on

530
00:23:32,879 --> 00:23:30,940
kgr a radio and my guess is Christopher

531
00:23:35,149 --> 00:23:32,889
Carr Cogswell we'll be right back after

532
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:35,159
this commercial break

533
00:23:39,030 --> 00:23:37,809
clear three minutes gentlemen three

534
00:23:41,790 --> 00:23:39,040
minutes got it okay

535
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:41,800
all right Lee so just quickly for the

536
00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:46,210
people on YouTube I did start the show

537
00:23:51,930 --> 00:23:48,760
and I'm sorry on YouTube so I just want

538
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:51,940
to tell you that we are not going to be

539
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:55,120
a live at MUFON this weekend we are

540
00:23:59,040 --> 00:23:57,130
going to gather we're going to gather

541
00:24:02,550 --> 00:23:59,050
interviews and those interviews will be

542
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:02,560
put into a youtube show that'll come up

543
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:04,210
sometime the beginning of the week I'm

544
00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:05,710
not sure if it's Monday or not so just

545
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:08,590
want to let everyone know that so Chris

546
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:10,510
we'll get back to that we'll get back to

547
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:12,130
that topic when we come back from the

548
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:16,690
break so but uh I'll ask you during the

549
00:24:21,870 --> 00:24:17,290
break here

550
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,880
how how does your science background I

551
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:23,440
guess to get out actually this during

552
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:26,320
the podcast too but what part I guess

553
00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:27,970
should say it this way what part of your

554
00:24:32,990 --> 00:24:29,980
science background helps you the most

555
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:33,000
when you're looking at the UFO topic I

556
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:37,210
would say honestly it's communication

557
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:40,000
skills it's the ability to take a

558
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:43,600
complicated idea and write about it in

559
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:48,000
such a way that it's both both

560
00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:50,710
academically rigorous enough that people

561
00:24:54,210 --> 00:24:52,390
who are people who are trying to

562
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:54,220
convince frankly won't just dismiss it

563
00:24:58,800 --> 00:24:56,410
and that's kind of good that's kind of

564
00:25:00,990 --> 00:24:58,810
like an ivory tower sort of you know

565
00:25:02,610 --> 00:25:01,000
frankly a kind of a jerkish way of

566
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:02,620
looking at things right but

567
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:04,930
unfortunately that's kind of the way

568
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:08,410
things happen so you have a lot of

569
00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:11,440
groups that will just throw away UFO

570
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:12,700
reports out of hand because they're like

571
00:25:17,010 --> 00:25:13,990
well this was written by is just some

572
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:17,020
you know some guys some lady whatever so

573
00:25:21,450 --> 00:25:19,090
trying to up the level and the

574
00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:21,460
standardization of those things was a

575
00:25:27,390 --> 00:25:24,430
huge like really was a very big part of

576
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,400
I think the goal was to make these

577
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:29,200
reports make these things look more

578
00:25:34,830 --> 00:25:33,250
efficient and official and so really I

579
00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:34,840
mean and that's that's been true

580
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:37,000
throughout my entire career so far in

581
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:39,370
everything you know no matter how many

582
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:43,600
math I how much math I learn I'll always

583
00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:44,770
think that philosophy degree was the

584
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:47,950
most useful because it you know taught

585
00:25:52,830 --> 00:25:51,850
me how to argue and also how to put my

586
00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:52,840
ideas out

587
00:25:59,130 --> 00:25:56,440
to the world Wow so philosophy is very

588
00:26:01,080 --> 00:25:59,140
helpful I oh I love I love my philosophy

589
00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:01,090
degree it was the best it was best is it

590
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:02,529
one of the best decisions I've probably

591
00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:03,490
ever made

592
00:26:07,860 --> 00:26:05,529
yes unfortunate lot of people don't take

593
00:26:09,299 --> 00:26:07,870
philosophy because it's not a lot you

594
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:09,309
can do with it except if you want to

595
00:26:13,230 --> 00:26:10,690
teach you know I mean there's really not

596
00:26:15,390 --> 00:26:13,240
yeah it's not too much to do it's an

597
00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:15,400
interesting thing degree because if you

598
00:26:19,769 --> 00:26:17,320
look at and this was something that was

599
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:19,779
it was kind of funny they would you know

600
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:21,490
the the department that I was in

601
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:25,450
especially here in just one second oh we

602
00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:28,090
going back on soon yes I didn't want to

603
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:29,470
interrupt you guys yeah we go ahead and

604
00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:36,600
all right maybe look onset particle and

605
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:38,140
finish that up in the second part of

606
00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:39,250
second break

607
00:26:52,169 --> 00:26:41,860
stand by gentlemen about ten seconds all

608
00:26:54,269 --> 00:26:52,179
right okay in three two one go welcome

609
00:26:57,419 --> 00:26:54,279
back to podcast UFO am Martin Willis

610
00:27:01,409 --> 00:26:57,429
your host and we are in kgr a radio and

611
00:27:03,810 --> 00:27:01,419
my guest is Chris Cogswell Chris before

612
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:03,820
the break you were talking about the ins

613
00:27:09,330 --> 00:27:08,320
and outs and MUFON and I told you to

614
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:09,340
write it down did you

615
00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:13,120
I did I did write it down good so what

616
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,590
exactly do you remember exactly where

617
00:27:20,430 --> 00:27:16,559
you were going with uh with this

618
00:27:22,490 --> 00:27:20,440
absolutely yeah so glad someone did the

619
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:22,500
biggest the biggest I would say

620
00:27:27,330 --> 00:27:24,190
accomplishment that we had the biggest

621
00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:27,340
milestone we made was opening up the or

622
00:27:32,460 --> 00:27:29,080
allowing for the opening of the database

623
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:32,470
to other researchers potentially so as

624
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:36,610
of right now the the database manager

625
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:39,570
for MUFON who is Tomas who is wonderful

626
00:27:43,409 --> 00:27:41,890
does not get I think enough credit as

627
00:27:45,779 --> 00:27:43,419
much credit as he deserves cuz he's

628
00:27:49,409 --> 00:27:45,789
really the one who does a lot of this

629
00:27:51,419 --> 00:27:49,419
kind of stuff but the the database

630
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:51,429
itself now if you as an independent

631
00:27:57,090 --> 00:27:55,120
researcher wanna know say I want every

632
00:28:01,529 --> 00:27:57,100
case between you know and this is in

633
00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:01,539
this area between August 1st in August

634
00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:04,840
15th of 1995 they can out get that data

635
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:06,070
for you they can export it

636
00:28:11,370 --> 00:28:08,730
and sent it to you in a way that is not

637
00:28:12,930 --> 00:28:11,380
identifiable to an individual person Wow

638
00:28:14,970 --> 00:28:12,940
[Music]

639
00:28:16,350 --> 00:28:14,980
yeah a lot of people have complained

640
00:28:20,010 --> 00:28:16,360
about one of the complaints I hear the

641
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:20,020
most about MUFON is someone is working

642
00:28:24,990 --> 00:28:22,720
on a particular case trying to solve it

643
00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:25,000
and they they want to talk to the

644
00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:26,470
witnesses and they can you know that's

645
00:28:31,260 --> 00:28:28,750
one but I understand how that works how

646
00:28:34,110 --> 00:28:31,270
important it is to keep the safety of

647
00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:34,120
anonymity if someone needs it or wants

648
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:37,240
it desires it but let me ask you this if

649
00:28:42,810 --> 00:28:39,850
you I don't even know if you know the

650
00:28:46,140 --> 00:28:42,820
answer to this but if I were to put

651
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:46,150
report say a mass sighting

652
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:50,530
other people saw to to move on am I able

653
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:53,290
to say hey look I don't mind using my

654
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:54,850
name use my name if people want to

655
00:29:02,010 --> 00:28:57,520
contact me can you actually do that and

656
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:02,020
a MUFON report you can but I believe

657
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:05,290
that there is some I what I'm gonna

658
00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:07,090
imagine there would have to be is some

659
00:29:11,010 --> 00:29:08,620
so when you when you make a report to

660
00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:11,020
move on there is paperwork you actually

661
00:29:14,730 --> 00:29:13,270
to fill out and in some ways it's

662
00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:14,740
designed in a certain a certain way to

663
00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:18,190
make it so that you know some guy on the

664
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:19,960
weekend who just wants to kind of poke

665
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:21,700
something or make a prank or whatever

666
00:29:26,970 --> 00:29:24,250
he's not gonna spend the 15-20 minutes

667
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:26,980
to fill out all the forms you know I

668
00:29:31,530 --> 00:29:29,200
don't go to the DMV to get a joke

669
00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:31,540
driver's license right so I guess it's

670
00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:35,500
kind of the same theory so on that form

671
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:37,060
though one of the check boxes you can

672
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:39,490
check is I prefer to remain anonymous or

673
00:29:42,090 --> 00:29:40,930
not all right you know I'm happy with

674
00:29:43,470 --> 00:29:42,100
other people contacting me about this

675
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:43,480
case so that is something that's

676
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:48,610
possible for sure and also if once your

677
00:29:53,010 --> 00:29:51,010
case goes into the database they are

678
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:53,020
made available a limited amount of

679
00:29:58,110 --> 00:29:54,250
information is made available on the

680
00:30:00,210 --> 00:29:58,120
MUFON UFO tracker website but again it's

681
00:30:03,180 --> 00:30:00,220
very very limited it's things like you

682
00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:03,190
know any photos you took maybe and a

683
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,800
brief description and the general you

684
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:07,600
know this happened in California you

685
00:30:13,670 --> 00:30:08,320
know stuff like that

686
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:13,680
I see so if someone is doing research

687
00:30:19,289 --> 00:30:17,410
can they actually get deeper much deeper

688
00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:19,299
into I mean how

689
00:30:23,549 --> 00:30:21,190
how do you sign up for that something

690
00:30:25,619 --> 00:30:23,559
like that like to say if I would I was

691
00:30:27,330 --> 00:30:25,629
looking at a particular case and I

692
00:30:29,159 --> 00:30:27,340
wanted to get more information about it

693
00:30:31,229 --> 00:30:29,169
would I contact someone in particular

694
00:30:33,930 --> 00:30:31,239
or is it things just readily available

695
00:30:36,869 --> 00:30:33,940
if I know where to find them so the goal

696
00:30:39,090 --> 00:30:36,879
was that you would contact me but now

697
00:30:39,479 --> 00:30:39,100
there's no one in my position and move

698
00:30:45,419 --> 00:30:39,489
on

699
00:30:46,889 --> 00:30:45,429
you could you could try it you can give

700
00:30:50,869 --> 00:30:46,899
it a shot and see if you could just send

701
00:30:55,349 --> 00:30:50,879
an email to Jan or someone but honestly

702
00:30:58,109 --> 00:30:55,359
that and the other thing too is so I

703
00:31:00,599 --> 00:30:58,119
still have I still have my printouts of

704
00:31:01,889 --> 00:31:00,609
the database that MUFON was was gracious

705
00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:01,899
enough to allow me to continue working

706
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:05,769
with to do some statistical work that my

707
00:31:11,549 --> 00:31:09,850
team is doing but you know for for newer

708
00:31:13,639 --> 00:31:11,559
cases things like that and whether or

709
00:31:15,930 --> 00:31:13,649
not they decide to continue that kind of

710
00:31:20,879 --> 00:31:15,940
vision that I was hoping to accomplish

711
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:20,889
there I have no idea okay all right so

712
00:31:26,489 --> 00:31:23,049
let's get to the let's get to the bad

713
00:31:28,830 --> 00:31:26,499
stuff and just get that over there so

714
00:31:32,669 --> 00:31:28,840
you decided to leave MUFON do you want

715
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:32,679
to go into the what what made you guys

716
00:31:39,389 --> 00:31:35,279
our read your letter when you wrote it

717
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:39,399
was that two months ago or more Oh a

718
00:31:45,450 --> 00:31:41,679
little bit more three months around

719
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:45,460
there yeah yeah man that was a it was

720
00:31:49,950 --> 00:31:47,710
such a gut punch you know I like I grew

721
00:31:52,739 --> 00:31:49,960
up I grew up reading about J Allen Hynek

722
00:31:54,869 --> 00:31:52,749
yeah reading about people that you know

723
00:31:57,359 --> 00:31:54,879
were the scientific minds who got

724
00:31:59,009 --> 00:31:57,369
involved and I finally was like I got

725
00:32:00,930 --> 00:31:59,019
involved it's you know oh I'm gonna do

726
00:32:02,970 --> 00:32:00,940
so much great stuff and then something

727
00:32:05,159 --> 00:32:02,980
like this comes up and it just takes the

728
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:05,169
wind out of your sails completely you

729
00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:08,289
know but so the reason I resigned was

730
00:32:14,749 --> 00:32:11,289
that I I believed as I think many in the

731
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:14,759
public believed that a certain state

732
00:32:22,979 --> 00:32:19,090
leader was removed due to racist

733
00:32:27,930 --> 00:32:22,989
comments made on Facebook it turned out

734
00:32:29,639 --> 00:32:27,940
that that removal was a lot less of a

735
00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:29,649
removal and a lot more of a shuffling

736
00:32:35,250 --> 00:32:32,740
about you know so you kind of

737
00:32:37,950 --> 00:32:35,260
it's kind of like when when Putin made

738
00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:37,960
Medvedev president or prime minister of

739
00:32:42,690 --> 00:32:40,270
Russia for that one you know like that

740
00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:42,700
month-long period place card holder yeah

741
00:32:48,780 --> 00:32:45,040
exactly right kind of kind of seems to

742
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:48,790
be what's going on and then and then

743
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:50,290
besides that too I found out that the

744
00:33:00,510 --> 00:32:55,679
issue of racism was or very questionable

745
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:00,520
things were was more rampant than I had

746
00:33:06,810 --> 00:33:04,000
previously believed and so before you

747
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:06,820
move from that do you mean among other

748
00:33:14,370 --> 00:33:10,530
members or just that particular member

749
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:14,380
among other members is well II yeah and

750
00:33:22,169 --> 00:33:19,290
just kind of a general look MUFON is a

751
00:33:24,930 --> 00:33:22,179
MUFON is an older organization there's

752
00:33:29,549 --> 00:33:24,940
no way around that MUFON is mostly made

753
00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:29,559
up of people in their 60s plus and a lot

754
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,590
of the and with that comes obvious

755
00:33:37,140 --> 00:33:34,720
demographics right it's like if you you

756
00:33:40,169 --> 00:33:37,150
know if you went to a I don't know if

757
00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:40,179
you went to a high school event or

758
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:42,670
whatever with a you know Reaganomics

759
00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:43,690
t-shirt on or something you'd probably

760
00:33:48,390 --> 00:33:45,910
get yelled at right it's kind of you

761
00:33:50,850 --> 00:33:48,400
know it's there there's kind of a feel

762
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:50,860
to these kind of things unfortunately

763
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:54,010
and although we would hope that although

764
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:55,630
we would and that's not true at all of

765
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,250
everywhere you know my local chapter

766
00:34:01,440 --> 00:33:59,440
Minnesota was amazing all the chapters

767
00:34:03,510 --> 00:34:01,450
that I've spoken to generally have been

768
00:34:04,980 --> 00:34:03,520
amazing but it is definitely something

769
00:34:07,950 --> 00:34:04,990
that is not taken as seriously as it

770
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,960
should be especially for an organization

771
00:34:12,690 --> 00:34:10,800
that is having trouble recruiting young

772
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:12,700
new members

773
00:34:18,690 --> 00:34:16,450
that's very true yeah and it's actually

774
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:18,700
goal I've heard you know Jan talk about

775
00:34:23,609 --> 00:34:21,040
that trying to get you know trying to

776
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:23,619
get them in it was a it was a goal that

777
00:34:28,980 --> 00:34:25,570
we shared in common you know I mean and

778
00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:28,990
that's the thing and there it I believe

779
00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:33,310
that there is something there that makes

780
00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:35,350
I believe that there is something

781
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:37,240
whether it be a financial reason or just

782
00:34:43,379 --> 00:34:40,450
a personal reason or whatever that you

783
00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:43,389
know causes them as an organization to

784
00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:46,060
be unable or unwilling to distance

785
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:46,700
themselves

786
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:49,280
these people that make comments like

787
00:34:54,220 --> 00:34:51,200
this and hold these kind of views and

788
00:34:56,260 --> 00:34:54,230
things and so even just from a public

789
00:34:58,990 --> 00:34:56,270
relations or just from a purely selfish

790
00:35:01,329 --> 00:34:59,000
standpoint of I want this organization

791
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:01,339
to continue it would be prudent to

792
00:35:06,940 --> 00:35:03,770
separate yourself entirely right from

793
00:35:08,319 --> 00:35:06,950
that kind of viewpoint and honestly I

794
00:35:11,290 --> 00:35:08,329
think it comes down to a problem of

795
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:11,300
having a backbone in your beliefs mufon

796
00:35:15,790 --> 00:35:14,210
for so long has been the place where you

797
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:15,800
can come and say anything and no one

798
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:20,530
will question you you know no matter how

799
00:35:25,329 --> 00:35:23,810
preposterous the claim and that's not to

800
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:25,339
say that we don't take people's

801
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:29,510
experiences seriously we do but you know

802
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:31,760
the 15th time a guy comes and shows you

803
00:35:35,490 --> 00:35:33,530
a photo a blank photo of his back yard

804
00:35:38,589 --> 00:35:35,500
and says look at the big foot I call it

805
00:35:42,579 --> 00:35:38,599
you know I'm gonna stop taking your

806
00:35:44,290 --> 00:35:42,589
photos you know there's no way so it's

807
00:35:46,510 --> 00:35:44,300
kind of the same thing here there's no

808
00:35:48,130 --> 00:35:46,520
critical there's no criticality at MUFON

809
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:48,140
meetings - no criticality at MUFON

810
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,570
generally in my opinion and that was

811
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:52,160
again something that I believed the

812
00:35:58,569 --> 00:35:56,240
board and I had in common as a goal but

813
00:36:01,180 --> 00:35:58,579
when you can't even tell someone that

814
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:01,190
they probably you know they're probably

815
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:04,250
not a alien-human hybrid with

816
00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:06,770
telekinetic powers if you can't tell

817
00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:08,150
someone that you're probably not going

818
00:36:14,190 --> 00:36:11,390
to tell someone that they're I don't

819
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:14,200
know their facebook posts are offensive

820
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:16,730
that's unfortunately so what do you

821
00:36:22,690 --> 00:36:20,930
happen to know had your when you

822
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:22,700
resigned did that cause any type of

823
00:36:25,890 --> 00:36:24,410
ripple effect of any kind that you're

824
00:36:28,930 --> 00:36:25,900
aware of

825
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:28,940
as far as I can tell it has done nothing

826
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:32,810
but open up my free time for more video

827
00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:37,040
games which is unfortunate because like

828
00:36:43,390 --> 00:36:41,569
I said I I really still do believe that

829
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:43,400
the vast majority of the membership in

830
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:47,810
MUFON are good people are people who

831
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:51,050
have the best intentions at heart or are

832
00:36:54,579 --> 00:36:52,690
people that have had a legitimately

833
00:36:57,220 --> 00:36:54,589
frightening experience that they want

834
00:37:00,610 --> 00:36:57,230
answers to and those people are not

835
00:37:06,490 --> 00:37:00,620
being served well by

836
00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:06,500
you know these both being exposed to you

837
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:09,950
know vile beliefs but also not being

838
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:15,770
well served by being fed any anything

839
00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:17,690
any person wants to come and try to give

840
00:37:23,110 --> 00:37:20,840
to them there has to be a level of

841
00:37:27,250 --> 00:37:23,120
critique there has to be a level of peer

842
00:37:29,590 --> 00:37:27,260
review and control over what we deem is

843
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:29,600
a as a community as a UFO community what

844
00:37:34,330 --> 00:37:32,480
do we do is being a sensible argument or

845
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:34,340
a good Avenue to research down or

846
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:36,890
whatever there has to be some control

847
00:37:41,530 --> 00:37:39,680
over that otherwise you just can't you

848
00:37:43,180 --> 00:37:41,540
know you just look forever for nothing

849
00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:43,190
you or you never find any evidence you

850
00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:44,870
never move forward and that's been I

851
00:37:50,830 --> 00:37:48,340
think that's in my opinion the big

852
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:50,840
takeaway from the UFO field over the

853
00:37:58,180 --> 00:37:55,330
last 67 years is when we are not

854
00:38:01,330 --> 00:37:58,190
stringent in our critique when we are

855
00:38:04,750 --> 00:38:01,340
not careful about what we take to be

856
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:04,760
evidence then eventually everything is

857
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:06,170
permissible everything is an okay idea

858
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:08,330
everything is a sensible theory and

859
00:38:13,110 --> 00:38:10,310
argument and that's when you get things

860
00:38:17,620 --> 00:38:13,120
like you know

861
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:17,630
starseed arguments or the more intense

862
00:38:20,830 --> 00:38:19,490
of the ancient aliens theories and

863
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:20,840
things like that so you start with a

864
00:38:24,970 --> 00:38:23,330
good idea or an interesting idea and you

865
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:24,980
just water it down so much do you get

866
00:38:32,110 --> 00:38:28,310
nothing in the end right I actually read

867
00:38:34,930 --> 00:38:32,120
that post that this whole thing started

868
00:38:38,050 --> 00:38:34,940
from and I really feel that there's no

869
00:38:40,530 --> 00:38:38,060
place for someone that's gonna post

870
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:40,540
something like that in any type of way

871
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:43,490
that has any type of position and move

872
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:45,680
on I feel that very strongly myself

873
00:38:54,810 --> 00:38:49,610
I just don't it has no place and no and

874
00:38:59,110 --> 00:38:54,820
in the thing is too that there is no

875
00:39:01,890 --> 00:38:59,120
again there is nothing it has nothing to

876
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:01,900
do even for me ultimately whether or not

877
00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:04,160
you know a lot of people have messaged

878
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:05,150
me a lot of people have messaged me a

879
00:39:09,010 --> 00:39:07,250
very great and supportive about this

880
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:09,020
whole thing and a lot of people have

881
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:10,160
messaged me and been not so great

882
00:39:14,289 --> 00:39:13,250
because it's the Internet yes you get

883
00:39:21,669 --> 00:39:14,299
that

884
00:39:25,089 --> 00:39:21,679
I've gotten is well you know when when

885
00:39:26,650 --> 00:39:25,099
is a person's apology enough right when

886
00:39:28,589 --> 00:39:26,660
is a person saying they're sorry about

887
00:39:31,809 --> 00:39:28,599
something like this enough and again

888
00:39:35,799 --> 00:39:31,819
it's it's the cover-up is always worse

889
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:35,809
than the crime the MUFON said that he

890
00:39:38,709 --> 00:39:37,910
was out MUFON said that this was taken

891
00:39:40,269 --> 00:39:38,719
care of

892
00:39:41,469 --> 00:39:40,279
they promised me that it was taking care

893
00:39:45,669 --> 00:39:41,479
of otherwise I would never would have

894
00:39:48,009 --> 00:39:45,679
joined on board and to then find out you

895
00:39:49,299 --> 00:39:48,019
know write his things right as you know

896
00:39:50,829 --> 00:39:49,309
we started building up a good head of

897
00:39:53,739 --> 00:39:50,839
steam to start getting over some of

898
00:39:55,929 --> 00:39:53,749
these hurdles to then find out that well

899
00:39:57,339 --> 00:39:55,939
actually when we said they weren't

900
00:39:59,410 --> 00:39:57,349
involved we just met they didn't have a

901
00:40:00,669 --> 00:39:59,420
title anymore you know they're actually

902
00:40:03,249 --> 00:40:00,679
still heavily involved in all the

903
00:40:07,269 --> 00:40:03,259
planning for every big event when that

904
00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:07,279
happens they lied to me they lied to the

905
00:40:13,539 --> 00:40:10,609
public in my opinion and again it comes

906
00:40:16,449 --> 00:40:13,549
down to this question of if you are an

907
00:40:19,029 --> 00:40:16,459
organization who's one of their major

908
00:40:21,429 --> 00:40:19,039
arguments is that the government is

909
00:40:26,789 --> 00:40:21,439
hiding something about UFO information

910
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:26,799
or truth then you need to be as as

911
00:40:33,279 --> 00:40:30,319
crystal clear as transparent as you

912
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:33,289
possibly can be because otherwise you

913
00:40:39,150 --> 00:40:35,839
start looking you know it starts looking

914
00:40:41,679 --> 00:40:39,160
very very shady

915
00:40:47,380 --> 00:40:41,689
it's it's just not a good position to be

916
00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:47,390
in yeah well I actually commend you for

917
00:40:53,380 --> 00:40:50,569
taking that stand because I think your

918
00:40:54,910 --> 00:40:53,390
heart was in the right place and and do

919
00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:54,920
you have any regrets or you feel like

920
00:41:00,549 --> 00:40:56,689
that was the right decision and now I

921
00:41:01,479 --> 00:41:00,559
get to play video games I I think it was

922
00:41:04,689 --> 00:41:01,489
the right decision

923
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:04,699
I do have regrets in that I regret that

924
00:41:11,380 --> 00:41:09,920
more I wish that more people I wish that

925
00:41:14,829 --> 00:41:11,390
more of the individuals that I had

926
00:41:17,169 --> 00:41:14,839
spoken to about this I guess sort of had

927
00:41:20,249 --> 00:41:17,179
felt that they could also make the same

928
00:41:23,289 --> 00:41:20,259
kind of moral stand that I did I

929
00:41:28,059 --> 00:41:23,299
honestly am very hopeful that someday

930
00:41:30,009 --> 00:41:28,069
MUFON can continue and will

931
00:41:34,569 --> 00:41:30,019
become maybe again an organization that

932
00:41:39,449 --> 00:41:34,579
I can be proud to be a member of but I'm

933
00:41:41,289 --> 00:41:39,459
also very excited about the potential

934
00:41:44,289 --> 00:41:41,299
new things that come about from

935
00:41:47,019 --> 00:41:44,299
something like this when I joined when I

936
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:47,029
first joined MUFON the reason why I

937
00:41:53,579 --> 00:41:48,650
first joined MUFON was that I found

938
00:41:56,019 --> 00:41:53,589
other larger kind of societies like say

939
00:42:01,089 --> 00:41:56,029
the American skeptical Society and

940
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:01,099
things like that to be to to debunk II I

941
00:42:06,849 --> 00:42:04,160
guess the words I'm not really

942
00:42:09,130 --> 00:42:06,859
interested in in ridiculing people for

943
00:42:10,449 --> 00:42:09,140
having a scary experience or for

944
00:42:13,689 --> 00:42:10,459
believing something differently than I

945
00:42:15,699 --> 00:42:13,699
am I'm interested in understanding why

946
00:42:18,130 --> 00:42:15,709
they believe it and then trying to find

947
00:42:21,039 --> 00:42:18,140
a way to make sense of what they

948
00:42:23,019 --> 00:42:21,049
experienced so you know and and there

949
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:23,029
are a lot of people that would consider

950
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:24,529
themselves to be scientifically oriented

951
00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:27,680
and skeptical even that I think have

952
00:42:30,609 --> 00:42:29,390
that same viewpoint and I've heard I've

953
00:42:32,620 --> 00:42:30,619
heard us described as different things

954
00:42:35,140 --> 00:42:32,630
but probably my favorite is the spooky

955
00:42:36,699 --> 00:42:35,150
skeptics right that's that's the kind of

956
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:36,709
group that I wanted to join was a group

957
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:39,680
that was made up of other like-minded

958
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:42,650
people who really wanted to get to the

959
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:44,089
bottom of this stuff and if we couldn't

960
00:42:47,799 --> 00:42:45,890
you know the the good thing about

961
00:42:50,349 --> 00:42:47,809
science is or the good thing about an

962
00:42:52,089 --> 00:42:50,359
experiment is even if at the end of the

963
00:42:54,099 --> 00:42:52,099
experiment you find that your hypothesis

964
00:42:57,009 --> 00:42:54,109
was wrong that teaches you something

965
00:43:00,969 --> 00:42:57,019
right the problem with a lot of the way

966
00:43:03,459 --> 00:43:00,979
in my opinion that these esoteric

967
00:43:05,259 --> 00:43:03,469
investigations are done is they're not

968
00:43:06,759 --> 00:43:05,269
developed as experiments or not

969
00:43:09,339 --> 00:43:06,769
developed as studies that just

970
00:43:11,410 --> 00:43:09,349
open-ended questions the question of do

971
00:43:15,489 --> 00:43:11,420
UFOs exist or do yo foes visit the earth

972
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:15,499
that will he'll never have you know that

973
00:43:19,989 --> 00:43:17,170
will have a definitive answer eventually

974
00:43:22,059 --> 00:43:19,999
but at the point where it's just dumb

975
00:43:24,489 --> 00:43:22,069
chance it's luck whether or not it

976
00:43:27,489 --> 00:43:24,499
happens right if a UFO crashes in the

977
00:43:29,769 --> 00:43:27,499
middle of Fifth Avenue in New York you

978
00:43:34,029 --> 00:43:29,779
know barring some really great digital

979
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:34,039
CGI effects and editing in things you

980
00:43:38,469 --> 00:43:36,170
know that is gonna be the definitive

981
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:38,479
proof that proves that question but you

982
00:43:43,540 --> 00:43:41,930
can start to ask more directed questions

983
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:43,550
that you can get answers to and still

984
00:43:48,250 --> 00:43:45,650
learn something and that's kind of where

985
00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:48,260
we're trying to wear myself and some of

986
00:43:53,020 --> 00:43:49,400
the people I'm working with are trying

987
00:43:56,559 --> 00:43:53,030
to focus our efforts so you know from

988
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:56,569
kind of the ashes of of what I was

989
00:44:02,500 --> 00:43:58,490
trying to accomplish it MUFON you know

990
00:44:04,780 --> 00:44:02,510
the when when when I put out a call for

991
00:44:08,140 --> 00:44:04,790
scientists to get involved with MUFON

992
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:08,150
with me I was pretty blown away by the

993
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:10,130
response of people who wanted to get

994
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:16,160
involved and those people all kind of

995
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:19,280
followed me out so there is still a

996
00:44:23,319 --> 00:44:21,710
group of people working there are still

997
00:44:26,170 --> 00:44:23,329
good people in this field doing research

998
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:26,180
and doing investigations and so I still

999
00:44:30,910 --> 00:44:28,970
have a lot of a lot of hope and energy

1000
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:30,920
to do the work in this field or try to

1001
00:44:36,220 --> 00:44:33,890
get something done here you know it just

1002
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:36,230
won't be done with a nice fancy logo on

1003
00:44:42,460 --> 00:44:38,720
my head well you know there are other

1004
00:44:45,130 --> 00:44:42,470
there are other groups I know that would

1005
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,140
love to have you I know Paul Carr is

1006
00:44:48,910 --> 00:44:47,119
part of one I can't think of the name of

1007
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:48,920
that one too where they do just like

1008
00:44:56,140 --> 00:44:51,530
scientific study then there's the UFO

1009
00:44:58,420 --> 00:44:56,150
data there's that group there's also the

1010
00:44:59,980 --> 00:44:58,430
group that Alejandro was actually part

1011
00:45:02,440 --> 00:44:59,990
of our has something to do with it's

1012
00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:02,450
another scientific group so there's a

1013
00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:04,910
lot of groups but I know you know MUFON

1014
00:45:11,380 --> 00:45:07,339
is has established a long established

1015
00:45:13,059 --> 00:45:11,390
and you know I can't remember exactly

1016
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:13,069
how old it is about it isn't it like the

1017
00:45:18,370 --> 00:45:15,650
oldest surviving I think or there may be

1018
00:45:19,809 --> 00:45:18,380
one other so it is now the oldest it is

1019
00:45:21,490 --> 00:45:19,819
the oldest surviving the group the group

1020
00:45:23,410 --> 00:45:21,500
actually that Alejandro is part of and I

1021
00:45:25,539 --> 00:45:23,420
am also a part of actually oh you are is

1022
00:45:27,819 --> 00:45:25,549
this is the scientific coalition for you

1023
00:45:29,620 --> 00:45:27,829
apology that's it resi you yeah yeah

1024
00:45:32,049 --> 00:45:29,630
which I think is going to grow into be

1025
00:45:34,990 --> 00:45:32,059
something very exciting I hope well

1026
00:45:37,450 --> 00:45:35,000
that's right that's yeah the MUFON is

1027
00:45:43,980 --> 00:45:37,460
the oldest one but you know before MUFON

1028
00:45:54,730 --> 00:45:51,089
yeah all right so your skype has frozen

1029
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:54,740
so um might have to hang up here we'll

1030
00:45:59,600 --> 00:45:55,290
see what's

1031
00:46:01,790 --> 00:45:59,610
on here and we have a break coming up in

1032
00:46:04,220 --> 00:46:01,800
about six minutes Oh looks like you're

1033
00:46:07,490 --> 00:46:04,230
back to you back I'm back can you hear

1034
00:46:09,020 --> 00:46:07,500
me yep your Skype froze there so it has

1035
00:46:11,810 --> 00:46:09,030
happened a couple times there's a little

1036
00:46:16,270 --> 00:46:11,820
yeah alright so I don't know if you were

1037
00:46:19,940 --> 00:46:16,280
you were talking or are you there

1038
00:46:21,290 --> 00:46:19,950
I'm just yeah I'm there yeah I don't

1039
00:46:24,110 --> 00:46:21,300
know if you have an internet internet

1040
00:46:32,030 --> 00:46:24,120
issue it didn't happen we did a test

1041
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:32,040
earlier but anyway so that that is good

1042
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:34,200
that you you know you did that and you

1043
00:46:38,330 --> 00:46:36,060
know you're you're looking at you know

1044
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:38,340
possibly you know something will come

1045
00:46:42,590 --> 00:46:40,890
out of the ashes that you say are you

1046
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:42,600
still in touch with a number of people

1047
00:46:48,010 --> 00:46:44,310
that you were in touch with there and

1048
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:48,020
just avoiding some or how's that going

1049
00:46:54,590 --> 00:46:52,170
um I'm not really nearly avoiding anyone

1050
00:46:59,810 --> 00:46:54,600
I would say that's kind of not really my

1051
00:47:02,990 --> 00:46:59,820
style anyways kind of a I'm a loud

1052
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:03,000
person so it's hard to avoid it's not in

1053
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:05,490
my nature to hide yeah I would say that

1054
00:47:11,810 --> 00:47:09,530
if anything it has made me when I was

1055
00:47:15,470 --> 00:47:11,820
when I had an official position and move

1056
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:15,480
on I felt much more I felt it to be much

1057
00:47:21,950 --> 00:47:16,920
more necessary to be more political I

1058
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:21,960
guess in my statements because again

1059
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:23,490
you're not just representing yourself

1060
00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:24,450
you're operating a group you're

1061
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:26,940
representing a people of wildly

1062
00:47:32,690 --> 00:47:28,410
different beliefs and ideas and things

1063
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:32,700
and so you know I couldn't say I

1064
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,290
couldn't say things that maybe are

1065
00:47:38,410 --> 00:47:36,240
correct but are really my opinion or my

1066
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:38,420
belief I'd be more careful with them so

1067
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:41,130
it's kind of been freeing in a way to be

1068
00:47:45,620 --> 00:47:43,920
able to just say what what I really

1069
00:47:48,260 --> 00:47:45,630
think and really go after some of these

1070
00:47:52,610 --> 00:47:48,270
ideas more more critically or more

1071
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:52,620
strongly and I've been in contact with

1072
00:47:56,420 --> 00:47:54,000
some of the folks that I worked with but

1073
00:47:59,180 --> 00:47:56,430
really for the most part again it's kind

1074
00:48:03,290 --> 00:47:59,190
of one of those situations where you

1075
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:03,300
know kind of even ultimatum and the

1076
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:07,170
choice was made and so you know what are

1077
00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:08,640
you gonna do can't

1078
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:11,670
really go back on that so yeah yeah all

1079
00:48:16,250 --> 00:48:13,680
right well we only got a couple we got

1080
00:48:19,609 --> 00:48:16,260
four or five minutes left before we go

1081
00:48:23,170 --> 00:48:19,619
into the next break so I thought we

1082
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:23,180
would talk and discuss how is it

1083
00:48:28,910 --> 00:48:26,130
metaphysics what not metaphysics what

1084
00:48:31,569 --> 00:48:28,920
did I hear you say that you some of your

1085
00:48:34,370 --> 00:48:31,579
study is that has to do with metals and

1086
00:48:37,849 --> 00:48:34,380
the changing of a metal for another use

1087
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:37,859
what's that called a suit so my so what

1088
00:48:44,799 --> 00:48:40,529
what a lot of UFO sites are calling it

1089
00:48:51,170 --> 00:48:47,839
which is kind of an interesting beyond

1090
00:48:54,039 --> 00:48:51,180
materials you know but really what

1091
00:48:56,690 --> 00:48:54,049
they're they're called functionalized

1092
00:48:58,670 --> 00:48:56,700
nano-engineered surfaces or materials

1093
00:49:01,809 --> 00:48:58,680
all right it's kind of the forefront of

1094
00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:01,819
nanotechnology today it's really where

1095
00:49:09,220 --> 00:49:04,950
where scientific research into various

1096
00:49:13,249 --> 00:49:09,230
materials topics are focusing today and

1097
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:13,259
there's that like honeycomb molecular

1098
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:14,970
structure that's supposed to be

1099
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:16,410
something that just came out that's

1100
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:18,720
really really thin do you know what I'm

1101
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:19,680
talking about lights

1102
00:49:26,059 --> 00:49:23,130
graphite graphite um the other the other

1103
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:26,069
one is graphene graphene so it is

1104
00:49:30,049 --> 00:49:27,930
graphite but it becomes graphene when

1105
00:49:31,819 --> 00:49:30,059
it's a single layer at the nano scale

1106
00:49:35,450 --> 00:49:31,829
think you know yeah there's other ones

1107
00:49:39,380 --> 00:49:35,460
though I mean there's so the honeycomb

1108
00:49:42,049 --> 00:49:39,390
is a interesting shape geometrically

1109
00:49:46,940 --> 00:49:42,059
because it's the most it has the what is

1110
00:49:50,990 --> 00:49:46,950
the lowest energy - or lowest molecular

1111
00:49:52,609 --> 00:49:51,000
bond kind of strain energy Oh surface

1112
00:49:54,890 --> 00:49:52,619
over its entire surface area so it's

1113
00:49:56,930 --> 00:49:54,900
very stable structure and so a lot of

1114
00:50:00,170 --> 00:49:56,940
things in nature tend to make the

1115
00:50:03,230 --> 00:50:00,180
honeycomb shape things like alumina when

1116
00:50:07,249 --> 00:50:03,240
it's anodized you know things like it's

1117
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:07,259
a pineapple outsides and organic

1118
00:50:12,579 --> 00:50:09,119
molecules anything may be the benzene or

1119
00:50:16,009 --> 00:50:12,589
a cyclohexane are all composed of

1120
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:16,019
various groups of these hexagons

1121
00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:19,890
hexagons bond shapes but the work so the

1122
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:22,500
work that I did kind of bridges the Nano

1123
00:50:28,490 --> 00:50:25,440
world in the bulk world in that you

1124
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:28,500
create materials that have engineered

1125
00:50:33,950 --> 00:50:30,810
properties at the nano scale that you

1126
00:50:35,930 --> 00:50:33,960
can then alter in just a lab or just

1127
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:35,940
with something simple like say a laser

1128
00:50:44,540 --> 00:50:38,490
or a change in temperature a change in

1129
00:50:48,589 --> 00:50:44,550
pressure so the idea being that you can

1130
00:50:50,810 --> 00:50:48,599
build specific properties or materials

1131
00:50:52,820 --> 00:50:50,820
that can change to the application of

1132
00:50:55,339 --> 00:50:52,830
interest and allow them then do things

1133
00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:55,349
such as you know and we just think about

1134
00:51:01,010 --> 00:50:57,510
a simple piston cylinder kind of

1135
00:51:04,849 --> 00:51:01,020
assembly for a motor right all you need

1136
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:04,859
for that to work in theory at least in

1137
00:51:09,980 --> 00:51:08,490
essence is a single moving part right in

1138
00:51:12,770 --> 00:51:09,990
a moving part you need something to

1139
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:12,780
transport the energy between the piston

1140
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:15,359
and the cylinder area right so in piston

1141
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:17,040
cylinder it's a gas that does that

1142
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:20,250
transfer of work at the nano scale

1143
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:22,770
they're building things like basically

1144
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:24,960
the Nano Springs that are these

1145
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:27,330
materials that when light waves hit them

1146
00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:30,270
they expand and then when it gets dark

1147
00:51:35,810 --> 00:51:32,310
they shrink again so another way to

1148
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:35,820
transfer energy as work but you're doing

1149
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:38,310
it in a way where you can build

1150
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:40,170
something like say a very very small

1151
00:51:45,410 --> 00:51:43,410
engine potentially that's the kind of

1152
00:51:47,300 --> 00:51:45,420
research work that I was involved in

1153
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:47,310
although mine was more focused on the

1154
00:51:54,130 --> 00:51:51,119
use of the use of these techniques to

1155
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:54,140
build larger materials for things like

1156
00:52:02,599 --> 00:51:58,170
capture or drug delivery or things like

1157
00:52:06,820 --> 00:52:02,609
that interesting now so if you were to

1158
00:52:10,490 --> 00:52:06,830
speculate that there's alien technology

1159
00:52:14,030 --> 00:52:10,500
that's you know beyond beyond what our

1160
00:52:16,849 --> 00:52:14,040
knowledge is in other words if we were

1161
00:52:18,260 --> 00:52:16,859
to find a crashed UFO from another

1162
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:18,270
civilization that was a million years

1163
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:22,050
ahead of us as far as advancement and

1164
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:24,510
knowledge we would actually expect to

1165
00:52:30,020 --> 00:52:26,640
find some of what you're talking about

1166
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:30,030
in the materials most likely right it's

1167
00:52:35,599 --> 00:52:32,880
hard to say for certain yeah right

1168
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:35,609
because again that's kind of the sort of

1169
00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:36,130
the trap

1170
00:52:40,350 --> 00:52:38,380
a lot of sci-fi writers and things get

1171
00:52:42,330 --> 00:52:40,360
into where you know if you're writing a

1172
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:42,340
you're writing a proto sci-fi novel in

1173
00:52:47,070 --> 00:52:44,800
the 1800s you're like you know and the

1174
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:47,080
spaceman everything will run on bicycles

1175
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:49,930
right so then from today it looks like

1176
00:52:54,990 --> 00:52:51,610
everything will be small and sleek I

1177
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:55,000
would expect that we would find there's

1178
00:52:57,810 --> 00:52:55,930
a couple things I would expect that we

1179
00:52:59,820 --> 00:52:57,820
would find I would expect them you would

1180
00:53:01,080 --> 00:52:59,830
find nanomaterials the other one that I

1181
00:53:03,570 --> 00:53:01,090
would expect that we would find actually

1182
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:03,580
though are non earth stable

1183
00:53:10,260 --> 00:53:06,250
thermodynamic states so crystalline

1184
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:10,270
structures or material structures that

1185
00:53:14,130 --> 00:53:12,370
are not literally not possible to be

1186
00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:14,140
made on the surface of the earth do do

1187
00:53:17,630 --> 00:53:15,100
the difference in pressure and

1188
00:53:19,770 --> 00:53:17,640
temperature and the other one would be

1189
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:19,780
potentially things in what's known as

1190
00:53:24,260 --> 00:53:21,850
the island of stability which is a

1191
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:24,270
theoretically proposed area of

1192
00:53:30,290 --> 00:53:27,850
super-heavy elements if that island of

1193
00:53:34,650 --> 00:53:30,300
stability exists it would open up

1194
00:53:36,210 --> 00:53:34,660
chemistry's that we have no knowledge of

1195
00:53:38,700 --> 00:53:36,220
or no idea of today

1196
00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:38,710
Wow okay well we'll get back to that

1197
00:53:44,370 --> 00:53:41,590
we're coming on the break right now this

1198
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:44,380
is Martin Willis of podcast UFO on kgr a

1199
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:47,530
radio and my guess is Chris Cogswell

1200
00:53:55,290 --> 00:53:53,050
we'll be right back clear how much time

1201
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:55,300
we get this son three minutes three

1202
00:53:59,340 --> 00:53:57,970
minutes got it okay Martin you're gonna

1203
00:54:02,460 --> 00:53:59,350
be commercial-free for the next hour

1204
00:54:05,820 --> 00:54:02,470
correct that's correct yep okay thanks

1205
00:54:10,170 --> 00:54:05,830
Bill welcome okay

1206
00:54:12,540 --> 00:54:10,180
so we were going to jump back and talk a

1207
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:12,550
little bit about a topic that we were in

1208
00:54:18,570 --> 00:54:14,410
the middle of in the last break did you

1209
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:18,580
write that down yeah so we were talking

1210
00:54:28,380 --> 00:54:22,530
about we were talking about philosophy

1211
00:54:31,770 --> 00:54:28,390
yeah and and why I liked it in fact yeah

1212
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:31,780
so the so they always brought this chart

1213
00:54:35,580 --> 00:54:33,310
out to show us at our philosophy classes

1214
00:54:38,340 --> 00:54:35,590
where they said well look you know if

1215
00:54:40,500 --> 00:54:38,350
you look at who what degree earns you

1216
00:54:44,550 --> 00:54:40,510
the most in 20 years in your career it's

1217
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:44,560
philosophy every time and from a from

1218
00:54:49,590 --> 00:54:46,930
the standpoint of a you know fourth-year

1219
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:49,600
philosophy student who's looking either

1220
00:54:53,060 --> 00:54:50,530
at grads

1221
00:54:56,100 --> 00:54:53,070
or deport me into a job at a bookstore

1222
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:56,110
you're kind of like well that yeah that

1223
00:54:59,970 --> 00:54:58,480
looks great you know what what happens

1224
00:55:03,060 --> 00:54:59,980
to the rest of us do we die before our

1225
00:55:07,410 --> 00:55:03,070
30s like what you how does that average

1226
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:07,420
happen so what I really did I found it

1227
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:09,850
to be extremely worthwhile extremely

1228
00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:13,450
useful and but like by far the most

1229
00:55:18,150 --> 00:55:15,270
useful skill I learned in undergraduate

1230
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:18,160
study that I used in grad school and

1231
00:55:26,940 --> 00:55:22,330
again still used today is just that

1232
00:55:29,370 --> 00:55:26,950
ability to just that ability to write

1233
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,380
and see an argument and pick it apart

1234
00:55:35,810 --> 00:55:32,160
and not be intimidated by very difficult

1235
00:55:38,010 --> 00:55:35,820
texts you know text and not difficult

1236
00:55:39,590 --> 00:55:38,020
even if the idea itself is not

1237
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:39,600
necessarily complicated and difficult

1238
00:55:45,660 --> 00:55:42,250
you know scientists have a way of

1239
00:55:48,570 --> 00:55:45,670
writing things very badly so it just

1240
00:55:49,740 --> 00:55:48,580
gets impossible especially if you're you

1241
00:55:52,220 --> 00:55:49,750
know I have some papers that I had to

1242
00:55:55,380 --> 00:55:52,230
die out of use in my research that were

1243
00:55:58,590 --> 00:55:55,390
originally written in Russian translated

1244
00:56:00,780 --> 00:55:58,600
to German and then translated to English

1245
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:00,790
from German oh you lose so much in each

1246
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:04,480
translation oh my goodness and in that

1247
00:56:08,550 --> 00:56:06,610
you know thankfully it was only like a

1248
00:56:12,090 --> 00:56:08,560
handful of papers from the very

1249
00:56:14,220 --> 00:56:12,100
beginnings of research into zeolites and

1250
00:56:16,650 --> 00:56:14,230
clays and things that I worked with but

1251
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:16,660
oh my goodness that paper reading that

1252
00:56:20,580 --> 00:56:18,880
thing was impossible

1253
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:20,590
I would never have gotten through it if

1254
00:56:25,530 --> 00:56:23,170
I hadn't already had to read you know 12

1255
00:56:28,830 --> 00:56:25,540
different versions of I don't know can't

1256
00:56:30,300 --> 00:56:28,840
write you know one of them is this this

1257
00:56:32,340 --> 00:56:30,310
one guy's opinion and this other guy

1258
00:56:36,570 --> 00:56:32,350
uses a different word for whatever and

1259
00:56:37,890 --> 00:56:36,580
oh god yeah no but but I really I really

1260
00:56:40,380 --> 00:56:37,900
did enjoy it quite a bit

1261
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:40,390
and really you know I always I always

1262
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:42,160
sing the praises of UNH every time I

1263
00:56:46,830 --> 00:56:43,930
talk to anybody because it's just such a

1264
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:46,840
quality you get such a high quality of

1265
00:56:51,810 --> 00:56:49,570
undergraduate education and the only

1266
00:56:53,310 --> 00:56:51,820
reason I think that it's not ranked more

1267
00:56:55,050 --> 00:56:53,320
highly is because the grad school

1268
00:56:57,150 --> 00:56:55,060
they're not really focused on graduate

1269
00:56:59,130 --> 00:56:57,160
studies are focused on our undergrads

1270
00:57:00,990 --> 00:56:59,140
all right that's right you but we're

1271
00:57:04,110 --> 00:57:01,000
gonna be coming back up hot seconds

1272
00:57:07,980 --> 00:57:04,120
that's no worries I apologize

1273
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:07,990
told you to do it all right hold on over

1274
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:12,250
in three two one go

1275
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:15,670
welcome back to podcast UFO on kgr a

1276
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:18,730
radio this Martin Willis with podcast

1277
00:57:23,580 --> 00:57:21,970
UFO my guest is Chris Cogswell now at

1278
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:23,590
the Turner that I wrote it down this

1279
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:24,490
time can you believe it

1280
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:27,130
you were talking about island stability

1281
00:57:33,690 --> 00:57:30,160
I believe in material structure yeah

1282
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:33,700
what what else would be like a really

1283
00:57:38,790 --> 00:57:36,880
unique well let me just say this a

1284
00:57:40,830 --> 00:57:38,800
number of people have said this to me

1285
00:57:44,010 --> 00:57:40,840
before well there's only so many

1286
00:57:46,110 --> 00:57:44,020
elements that we we believe exist we

1287
00:57:50,940 --> 00:57:46,120
don't know for sure but most likely

1288
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:50,950
exist in the universe so if something

1289
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:54,160
comes in as some type of alloy then it

1290
00:57:59,370 --> 00:57:57,370
could be basically made on earth but

1291
00:58:03,780 --> 00:57:59,380
what are what would be the like a

1292
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:03,790
telltale sign that you talked about the

1293
00:58:07,980 --> 00:58:06,160
Nano stuff is that what that would be

1294
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:07,990
like a telltale sign that it must have

1295
00:58:14,820 --> 00:58:12,400
come from somewhere else so the Nano the

1296
00:58:18,420 --> 00:58:14,830
nano thing it's a little bit the Nano

1297
00:58:20,580 --> 00:58:18,430
properties are a little bit more subtle

1298
00:58:23,250 --> 00:58:20,590
than that because you can have nano

1299
00:58:25,830 --> 00:58:23,260
properties from normal everyday

1300
00:58:27,420 --> 00:58:25,840
materials so clay clays are a very good

1301
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:27,430
example of that clays are really the

1302
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:30,010
first nano material we did any kind of

1303
00:58:35,670 --> 00:58:33,370
research on really as a society or just

1304
00:58:38,700 --> 00:58:35,680
as a people I guess as a human race and

1305
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:38,710
clays or nano structured such that they

1306
00:58:44,990 --> 00:58:42,370
have some clays anyways have single

1307
00:58:49,020 --> 00:58:45,000
layers of one to two nanometer wide

1308
00:58:52,050 --> 00:58:49,030
solid silica right so alumina silicate

1309
00:58:53,970 --> 00:58:52,060
and then in between those layers is the

1310
00:58:56,450 --> 00:58:53,980
layer of water or a layer of something

1311
00:58:58,770 --> 00:58:56,460
else some other kind of solution and

1312
00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:58,780
it's what allows you know how when you

1313
00:59:02,970 --> 00:59:00,640
have a clay you can kind of spread it

1314
00:59:04,860 --> 00:59:02,980
right you can mold it whatever that's

1315
00:59:07,020 --> 00:59:04,870
because it's hydrated there's water in

1316
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:07,030
between those layers of material and so

1317
00:59:10,770 --> 00:59:08,530
then when you heat it all that water

1318
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:10,780
goes away and those silent all groups

1319
00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:13,330
actually chemically fuse they bond and

1320
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:15,460
make silicon dioxide or aluminum to

1321
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:17,200
oxide bonds with each other so pottery

1322
00:59:20,220 --> 00:59:17,770
porcelain

1323
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:20,230
all that exactly ran all of that all of

1324
00:59:24,180 --> 00:59:22,330
that is technically a nanomaterial

1325
00:59:26,550 --> 00:59:24,190
although it's not a very useful one

1326
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:26,560
because it has very little open room

1327
00:59:33,570 --> 00:59:31,930
once it's heated so but that would be

1328
00:59:35,250 --> 00:59:33,580
something that we might get in a lab and

1329
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:35,260
look at and say oh it has nano features

1330
00:59:40,230 --> 00:59:37,510
but it would be a naturally made nano

1331
00:59:44,550 --> 00:59:40,240
featured material what I would think

1332
00:59:46,110 --> 00:59:44,560
though again those so today if we get if

1333
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:46,120
we have a piece of material that we

1334
00:59:50,310 --> 00:59:47,290
think might have come from meteorite

1335
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:50,320
let's say we look for we do look for

1336
00:59:55,860 --> 00:59:53,200
isotope ratios although that's I think

1337
00:59:57,810 --> 00:59:55,870
been given a little bit too much buzz in

1338
01:00:01,680 --> 00:59:57,820
the UFO community that's not you know

1339
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:01,690
not a super great tool but we do look

1340
01:00:06,930 --> 01:00:03,610
for things like crystal structures that

1341
01:00:08,970 --> 01:00:06,940
we don't know about on earth yet so for

1342
01:00:12,090 --> 01:00:08,980
instance there are crystal structures

1343
01:00:14,430 --> 01:00:12,100
that only form under extremely high

1344
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:14,440
temperatures and pressures and we find

1345
01:00:19,470 --> 01:00:17,050
them in say geological deposits we find

1346
01:00:22,350 --> 01:00:19,480
them from meteorites we can make them in

1347
01:00:24,300 --> 01:00:22,360
the lab if we were to find a material

1348
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:24,310
that we think is from a spacecraft and

1349
01:00:29,820 --> 01:00:26,170
we ran it say through an x-ray

1350
01:00:31,380 --> 01:00:29,830
diffraction machine and if we were able

1351
01:00:32,820 --> 01:00:31,390
to tell that it was a pure material at

1352
01:00:35,130 --> 01:00:32,830
that point it was crystalline in the

1353
01:00:37,830 --> 01:00:35,140
first place and we found that it

1354
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:37,840
contained a crystal structure that we

1355
01:00:42,540 --> 01:00:39,730
did not currently have documentation for

1356
01:00:44,220 --> 01:00:42,550
that would be very interesting the other

1357
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:44,230
thing that I would look for - you

1358
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:46,210
mentioned earlier that all of the

1359
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:48,730
elements that we think exist today are

1360
01:00:56,300 --> 01:00:52,960
known although that is true that's where

1361
01:01:00,330 --> 01:00:56,310
that island of stability idea comes in

1362
01:01:03,210 --> 01:01:00,340
atomic nuclei are stable most generally

1363
01:01:05,940 --> 01:01:03,220
are stable when their ratio of protons

1364
01:01:08,970 --> 01:01:05,950
to neutrons is one so if you have one

1365
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:08,980
proton usually have one Neutron when

1366
01:01:13,350 --> 01:01:11,050
things started to stray away from that

1367
01:01:16,530 --> 01:01:13,360
one to one ratio you get radioactive

1368
01:01:19,470 --> 01:01:16,540
decay spontaneously and so that's why

1369
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:19,480
things like say uranium 238 uranium has

1370
01:01:23,730 --> 01:01:21,520
I think an atomic a proton number of

1371
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:23,740
like 92 or something don't know it off

1372
01:01:25,290 --> 01:01:24,730
the top of my head it's somewhere around

1373
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:25,300
there

1374
01:01:30,630 --> 01:01:28,450
but it has a tonic mass of 238

1375
01:01:31,530 --> 01:01:30,640
so that's quite a bit more neutrons than

1376
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:31,540
protons

1377
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:37,690
unstable amongst other varied things but

1378
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:39,850
so one of the ideas in nuclear chemistry

1379
01:01:43,620 --> 01:01:42,490
right now that it's still kind of a pie

1380
01:01:46,550 --> 01:01:43,630
in the sky idea but it's a very

1381
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:46,560
interesting one in my opinion is that

1382
01:01:53,190 --> 01:01:49,810
what if we find other ratios of protons

1383
01:01:55,710 --> 01:01:53,200
to neutrons that are stable so let's say

1384
01:01:57,420 --> 01:01:55,720
for example all of the elements that

1385
01:02:00,510 --> 01:01:57,430
we're making past uranium all the

1386
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:00,520
transuranium elements are not they're

1387
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:03,010
both unstable so they'd radioactively

1388
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:05,410
decay spontaneously but they also decay

1389
01:02:09,030 --> 01:02:07,090
very quickly they have half-lives on the

1390
01:02:10,650 --> 01:02:09,040
order of like I think the most

1391
01:02:13,530 --> 01:02:10,660
long-lived one is a half-life of like a

1392
01:02:15,090 --> 01:02:13,540
minute or something so they're they're

1393
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:15,100
disappearing as soon as we make them in

1394
01:02:18,570 --> 01:02:16,960
the lab as soon as we're not even a lab

1395
01:02:20,790 --> 01:02:18,580
as soon as we make them in the collider

1396
01:02:23,550 --> 01:02:20,800
they're gone no you'll have a couple of

1397
01:02:29,460 --> 01:02:23,560
milliseconds to study these things Wow

1398
01:02:32,310 --> 01:02:29,470
but again if we if there is a planet out

1399
01:02:34,590 --> 01:02:32,320
there that has life that is has a

1400
01:02:37,710 --> 01:02:34,600
different chemistry in such a way that

1401
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:37,720
they do have access to these elements

1402
01:02:44,220 --> 01:02:41,530
with neutron to proton ratios of say 2

1403
01:02:48,180 --> 01:02:44,230
or 3 or 4 or whatever the number is that

1404
01:02:49,980 --> 01:02:48,190
makes it stable then potentially they

1405
01:02:52,860 --> 01:02:49,990
might have access to super-heavy

1406
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:52,870
elements that exist stabili on their

1407
01:02:57,930 --> 01:02:54,640
planet that we don't have access to and

1408
01:03:00,180 --> 01:02:57,940
that wouldn't be something that would

1409
01:03:03,060 --> 01:03:00,190
not necessarily be something say we're

1410
01:03:04,500 --> 01:03:03,070
oh well you know we're all part of the

1411
01:03:07,740 --> 01:03:04,510
same universe as soon as they exist here

1412
01:03:12,270 --> 01:03:07,750
they would exist here if we were say

1413
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:12,280
closer to I don't know where elements

1414
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:14,530
started where matter started or you know

1415
01:03:17,970 --> 01:03:16,210
if we were near a black hole or we were

1416
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:17,980
there's all kinds of different things

1417
01:03:21,210 --> 01:03:19,810
that could make interesting new

1418
01:03:25,290 --> 01:03:21,220
chemistry's for us that we don't have

1419
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:25,300
access to here so I would say though

1420
01:03:34,470 --> 01:03:31,930
again as always the the biggest the

1421
01:03:35,730 --> 01:03:34,480
biggest you know the biggest thing

1422
01:03:38,610 --> 01:03:35,740
that's gonna show us that something is

1423
01:03:41,570 --> 01:03:38,620
not both not from here so it comes from

1424
01:03:44,070 --> 01:03:41,580
space but then also that it is

1425
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:44,080
interesting in such a way that we think

1426
01:03:50,970 --> 01:03:45,250
it might be made by

1427
01:03:52,260 --> 01:03:50,980
telogen life is going it has yes that

1428
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:52,270
appear to be engineered into it

1429
01:03:56,550 --> 01:03:54,490
specifically so not just an interesting

1430
01:03:58,350 --> 01:03:56,560
an interesting nano structure a crystal

1431
01:04:01,230 --> 01:03:58,360
structure or whatever that it literally

1432
01:04:04,380 --> 01:04:01,240
you know if you apply a voltage to it it

1433
01:04:07,020 --> 01:04:04,390
lights up or if you you know you heat it

1434
01:04:08,910 --> 01:04:07,030
it seems to release a drug or things

1435
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:08,920
like that that's the area those are the

1436
01:04:13,050 --> 01:04:09,970
kinds of things that I would be looking

1437
01:04:16,380 --> 01:04:13,060
for and again it's it's part of I think

1438
01:04:17,970 --> 01:04:16,390
the reason why these arguments about

1439
01:04:20,100 --> 01:04:17,980
things they like alloys and things I

1440
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:20,110
they always make me kind of roll my eyes

1441
01:04:27,020 --> 01:04:22,480
because the answer is not going to be

1442
01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:27,030
that simple I see okay so we are

1443
01:04:31,410 --> 01:04:29,230
accepting phone calls at this time if

1444
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:31,420
anyone wants to call in and ask our

1445
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:36,010
guest a question so did you ever look

1446
01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:39,970
into the Bob Lazar claim of element 115

1447
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:42,310
do you merit did you ever hear about any

1448
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:45,010
of that or look into any of that or you

1449
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:48,250
know did that puzzle you in any way I've

1450
01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:50,290
heard about it I've heard about it a

1451
01:04:57,660 --> 01:04:54,910
little bit but the really have not

1452
01:05:02,300 --> 01:04:57,670
looked into it as enough or as much as I

1453
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:02,310
should probably see this yeah go ahead

1454
01:05:07,770 --> 01:05:04,450
basically he just said that he observed

1455
01:05:11,310 --> 01:05:07,780
it and I there was a large amount of it

1456
01:05:13,260 --> 01:05:11,320
which is it just made me think of it

1457
01:05:15,030 --> 01:05:13,270
when you talk about something being very

1458
01:05:19,170 --> 01:05:15,040
unstable and you know gone in a

1459
01:05:22,170 --> 01:05:19,180
nanosecond so I think that element has

1460
01:05:25,290 --> 01:05:22,180
been found or something but it's very

1461
01:05:26,490 --> 01:05:25,300
unstable and gone am I getting any of

1462
01:05:32,460 --> 01:05:26,500
that right do you know anything about

1463
01:05:37,110 --> 01:05:32,470
that so element 115 currently we call it

1464
01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:37,120
Muscovy 'm okay it which is which is fun

1465
01:05:44,190 --> 01:05:42,160
yeah it has a let's see here it has a

1466
01:05:49,940 --> 01:05:44,200
half-life on the order it's most stable

1467
01:05:52,860 --> 01:05:49,950
half-life is 37 no 650 milliseconds so

1468
01:05:57,290 --> 01:05:52,870
it's most stable is still gone in less

1469
01:05:59,059 --> 01:05:57,300
than a second yeah i it's interesting

1470
01:06:02,449 --> 01:05:59,069
potentially this would be

1471
01:06:04,969 --> 01:06:02,459
one where again you're starting to edge

1472
01:06:08,930 --> 01:06:04,979
close to that idea of say an island of

1473
01:06:16,009 --> 01:06:08,940
stability right so this is atomic number

1474
01:06:22,309 --> 01:06:16,019
115 and it has 290 so it has about 115

1475
01:06:24,079 --> 01:06:22,319
protons and 175 neutrons so I don't know

1476
01:06:26,989 --> 01:06:24,089
honestly I don't know enough to say

1477
01:06:28,519 --> 01:06:26,999
anything fully about it yet but it

1478
01:06:32,029 --> 01:06:28,529
thinks his point has to do with energy

1479
01:06:33,949 --> 01:06:32,039
and when something's unstable like that

1480
01:06:35,630 --> 01:06:33,959
I mean it would be like a source of

1481
01:06:37,189 --> 01:06:35,640
energy would it and then I'm out

1482
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:37,199
I'm not saying on one side of the

1483
01:06:43,299 --> 01:06:40,160
argument of the other because I really

1484
01:06:48,370 --> 01:06:43,309
have my doubts about a lot of things

1485
01:06:52,009 --> 01:06:48,380
when it comes to Bob Lazar but is

1486
01:06:55,339 --> 01:06:52,019
something like that with that molecular

1487
01:06:59,299 --> 01:06:55,349
structure something that could be used

1488
01:07:02,089 --> 01:06:59,309
for some type of energy yeah so all

1489
01:07:04,489 --> 01:07:02,099
radioactive all radioactive materials

1490
01:07:08,449 --> 01:07:04,499
can be used to get energy from them in

1491
01:07:09,559 --> 01:07:08,459
that you can use them in an energy you

1492
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:09,569
can use them say in a nuclear energy

1493
01:07:18,079 --> 01:07:14,609
cycle right but that is a very different

1494
01:07:22,459 --> 01:07:18,089
claim than his claim of say the gravity

1495
01:07:27,380 --> 01:07:22,469
warp-drive kind of idea so nuclear

1496
01:07:29,870 --> 01:07:27,390
energy is basically like a very imagine

1497
01:07:31,999 --> 01:07:29,880
if you had imagined that all of our

1498
01:07:33,469 --> 01:07:32,009
energy ran on hamster wheels or

1499
01:07:35,359 --> 01:07:33,479
something wrong and see the hamster

1500
01:07:37,759 --> 01:07:35,369
running in the wheel and it's very

1501
01:07:39,229 --> 01:07:37,769
rudimentary energy source nuclear energy

1502
01:07:41,509 --> 01:07:39,239
is kind of like well we get rid of the

1503
01:07:43,609 --> 01:07:41,519
hamster and we just we put a robotic

1504
01:07:46,939 --> 01:07:43,619
hamster in its place it's like a really

1505
01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:46,949
it's a really complicated solution that

1506
01:07:53,029 --> 01:07:48,329
we just stick into a really dumb

1507
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:53,039
original system right so nuclear energy

1508
01:07:55,999 --> 01:07:54,690
so the difference the major difference

1509
01:07:58,699 --> 01:07:56,009
between say a coal energy system and a

1510
01:08:00,140 --> 01:07:58,709
nuclear one is in the coal system it is

1511
01:08:03,140 --> 01:08:00,150
the burning of coal that produces the

1512
01:08:05,029 --> 01:08:03,150
heat that makes this steam become

1513
01:08:07,459 --> 01:08:05,039
high-pressure then who's a turbine in

1514
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:07,469
the nuclear reactor it is the nuclear

1515
01:08:13,220 --> 01:08:10,079
decay that's heating up the steam that

1516
01:08:14,810 --> 01:08:13,230
then pushes the turbine so

1517
01:08:17,570 --> 01:08:14,820
basically though the same system just a

1518
01:08:22,039 --> 01:08:17,580
different energy source what a lot of

1519
01:08:24,289 --> 01:08:22,049
the arguments about say space travel

1520
01:08:27,620 --> 01:08:24,299
technology and things like that are is

1521
01:08:30,019 --> 01:08:27,630
that there is some unknown energy type

1522
01:08:32,420 --> 01:08:30,029
that we can then use to make a new type

1523
01:08:33,789 --> 01:08:32,430
of engine entirely so you know that's

1524
01:08:37,309 --> 01:08:33,799
where you get into these arguments about

1525
01:08:41,059 --> 01:08:37,319
zero-point energy and vacuum States and

1526
01:08:44,210 --> 01:08:41,069
all that stuff but again or we really

1527
01:08:46,370 --> 01:08:44,220
have not progressed a lot farther you

1528
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:46,380
know we're still basically we are still

1529
01:08:49,670 --> 01:08:47,489
using steam engines

1530
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:49,680
you know we've got different types of

1531
01:08:53,570 --> 01:08:51,210
batteries and more interesting energy

1532
01:08:57,260 --> 01:08:53,580
sources but ultimately it's been the

1533
01:09:00,769 --> 01:08:57,270
same type of energy generation system

1534
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:00,779
since we first discovered it so I don't

1535
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:02,730
know I mean it's possible there's all

1536
01:09:06,650 --> 01:09:04,560
kinds of different ways to do it but it

1537
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:06,660
the simplest one that we still use is

1538
01:09:12,349 --> 01:09:09,330
that steam driven energy system so

1539
01:09:14,510 --> 01:09:12,359
that's that's one way you can get energy

1540
01:09:17,630 --> 01:09:14,520
into these things the other way would be

1541
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:17,640
these potentials for say okay it's

1542
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:20,370
there's a weird isotope of this material

1543
01:09:26,539 --> 01:09:23,120
that potentially has some kind of

1544
01:09:28,729 --> 01:09:26,549
anti-gravity properties or something

1545
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:28,739
that's never been proven we don't really

1546
01:09:36,860 --> 01:09:32,640
know what gives a an object mass though

1547
01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:36,870
still so potentially but it's that's all

1548
01:09:43,490 --> 01:09:39,359
sci-fi kind of that's way way out there

1549
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:43,500
sci-fi stuff well I've asked this to a

1550
01:09:50,749 --> 01:09:45,120
couple of astronomers I'm going to ask

1551
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:50,759
you because of your background and do

1552
01:09:57,260 --> 01:09:53,370
you think what do you think about the

1553
01:09:59,450 --> 01:09:57,270
Big Bang and I'm not a conspiracy not

1554
01:10:03,470 --> 01:09:59,460
trying to do conspiracy here but I'm

1555
01:10:06,590 --> 01:10:03,480
always puzzled by the absolutely nothing

1556
01:10:09,340 --> 01:10:06,600
or the thing you know 25 million times

1557
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:09,350
smaller than an atom bursts into in a

1558
01:10:15,530 --> 01:10:13,290
you know a millionth of a second you

1559
01:10:17,870 --> 01:10:15,540
know all of a sudden has all the energy

1560
01:10:20,930 --> 01:10:17,880
that there ever will be all throughout

1561
01:10:22,820 --> 01:10:20,940
the universe out of nothing that's

1562
01:10:25,570 --> 01:10:22,830
always so someone with your background

1563
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:25,580
I'm gonna ask you

1564
01:10:30,810 --> 01:10:28,640
I know it's a puzzle and letting alone a

1565
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:30,820
point to Elections man but it's just

1566
01:10:36,130 --> 01:10:32,330
what's that

1567
01:10:47,380 --> 01:10:36,140
I said I'm I'm I'm so happy we decided

1568
01:10:49,150 --> 01:10:47,390
on softball questions here man well I

1569
01:10:52,870 --> 01:10:49,160
did try to get a caller in you know no

1570
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:52,880
one calls so it's okay the problem I

1571
01:10:58,990 --> 01:10:55,930
think with a lot of those kinds of so

1572
01:11:04,150 --> 01:10:59,000
first off I am NOT as I'm not an

1573
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:04,160
astronomer so don't cut out on me I'm

1574
01:11:06,790 --> 01:11:04,730
just saying

1575
01:11:09,250 --> 01:11:06,800
understand as any good scientist would

1576
01:11:14,590 --> 01:11:09,260
have to that is not my area of expertise

1577
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:14,600
however I would say in my so the the

1578
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:16,370
problem with all kinds of arguments like

1579
01:11:25,300 --> 01:11:22,130
that where it gets back to that say you

1580
01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:25,310
know I mean it's it's similar to I had

1581
01:11:30,310 --> 01:11:27,230
someone had someone ask me this question

1582
01:11:33,850 --> 01:11:30,320
about they were talking about they found

1583
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:33,860
a they found a dinosaur bone someplace

1584
01:11:38,500 --> 01:11:36,130
something some geologists or

1585
01:11:40,660 --> 01:11:38,510
archaeologists found some dinosaur bones

1586
01:11:42,670 --> 01:11:40,670
in place and then from the bone itself

1587
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:42,680
they made an argument that the animal

1588
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:45,170
must have been eating a certain type of

1589
01:11:49,180 --> 01:11:47,120
plant and the way it did it was this way

1590
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:49,190
and just kind of inferring all these

1591
01:11:53,170 --> 01:11:51,290
extra things on top of what the bone

1592
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:53,180
like what the actual evidence itself

1593
01:12:02,260 --> 01:11:59,120
could tell you I the Big Bang Theory has

1594
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:02,270
stuck around so long theoretically at

1595
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:05,120
least because the the astrophysics

1596
01:12:10,450 --> 01:12:06,890
community has not been able to tear it

1597
01:12:15,250 --> 01:12:10,460
down yet hmm so in the in the viewpoint

1598
01:12:18,820 --> 01:12:15,260
of say you know I'm I'm sticking to my

1599
01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:18,830
fellow scientists I would hope and I'm

1600
01:12:22,270 --> 01:12:20,480
sure that it's true that their peer

1601
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,280
review process is keeping it if it's a

1602
01:12:27,730 --> 01:12:24,800
good theory it just won't be able to

1603
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:27,740
withstand it'll it'll be able to

1604
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:29,810
withstand peer review for as long as it

1605
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:33,170
needs to yeah I mean it will be

1606
01:12:38,170 --> 01:12:35,570
interesting if someday you know they

1607
01:12:39,169 --> 01:12:38,180
actually find you know one part of it

1608
01:12:42,109 --> 01:12:39,179
was 100

1609
01:12:45,739 --> 01:12:42,119
sent you know really did happen but you

1610
01:12:51,020 --> 01:12:45,749
know we have new evidence that you know

1611
01:12:53,449 --> 01:12:51,030
whatever it is that you know something

1612
01:12:54,919 --> 01:12:53,459
else happened well that's the bet the

1613
01:13:00,410 --> 01:12:54,929
problem with theories like that though

1614
01:13:01,910 --> 01:13:00,420
is what what counts as evidence right

1615
01:13:06,199 --> 01:13:01,920
it's it's kind of like those arguments

1616
01:13:10,179 --> 01:13:06,209
to me the any arguments about what came

1617
01:13:11,859 --> 01:13:10,189
before the Big Bang it's kind of

1618
01:13:13,580 --> 01:13:11,869
philosophically it's an impossible

1619
01:13:16,699 --> 01:13:13,590
argument you're making for yourself

1620
01:13:18,620 --> 01:13:16,709
because you're basically stating before

1621
01:13:22,399 --> 01:13:18,630
there was matter and energy for me to

1622
01:13:24,919 --> 01:13:22,409
measure I think there was this yeah well

1623
01:13:27,919 --> 01:13:24,929
I you know I think it was an elephant

1624
01:13:29,270 --> 01:13:27,929
yeah you know can't prove me wrong right

1625
01:13:31,580 --> 01:13:29,280
none of the tests you do will ever prove

1626
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:31,590
me wrong because there's nothing to

1627
01:13:41,060 --> 01:13:34,050
measure before the Big Bang yeah

1628
01:13:42,799 --> 01:13:41,070
so I you know so for me it's it is

1629
01:13:45,020 --> 01:13:42,809
pragmatically it becomes a question of

1630
01:13:47,020 --> 01:13:45,030
what we can't measure it so I don't know

1631
01:13:49,459 --> 01:13:47,030
and we have to leave it aside right so

1632
01:13:52,819 --> 01:13:49,469
at the same time though from a

1633
01:13:54,229 --> 01:13:52,829
philosophical point of view you know it

1634
01:13:58,100 --> 01:13:54,239
all comes down to say the entropic

1635
01:14:00,830 --> 01:13:58,110
principle where right I mean we don't we

1636
01:14:04,879 --> 01:14:00,840
might not know even if something is

1637
01:14:07,009 --> 01:14:04,889
unlikely if it has happened and we seem

1638
01:14:09,199 --> 01:14:07,019
to measure it it can still be unlikely

1639
01:14:11,419 --> 01:14:09,209
but it must have happened that way at

1640
01:14:14,270 --> 01:14:11,429
least once right it's the same argument

1641
01:14:14,810 --> 01:14:14,280
for life right hmm it you know there's a

1642
01:14:17,060 --> 01:14:14,820
point

1643
01:14:20,089 --> 01:14:17,070
oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh you know all the way

1644
01:14:21,919 --> 01:14:20,099
down the line 1% chance of life starting

1645
01:14:24,109 --> 01:14:21,929
on a planet or whatever yeah well it

1646
01:14:27,890 --> 01:14:24,119
happened here so we know it has to work

1647
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:27,900
sometimes yes you know so I honestly

1648
01:14:30,830 --> 01:14:28,800
don't know though

1649
01:14:34,549 --> 01:14:30,840
you know honestly I'm a weird I'm one of

1650
01:14:37,129 --> 01:14:34,559
those weird science nerds wear like

1651
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:37,139
chemists are weird because we didn't

1652
01:14:41,719 --> 01:14:39,449
like go on the planetariums as kids we

1653
01:14:44,509 --> 01:14:41,729
didn't like playing with animals we were

1654
01:14:48,140 --> 01:14:44,519
just straight-up like I want to be alone

1655
01:14:50,209 --> 01:14:48,150
in a dark dungeon mixing stuff you know

1656
01:14:51,949 --> 01:14:50,219
that was that was I always liked it as a

1657
01:14:52,910 --> 01:14:51,959
kid you know when I when I read Harry

1658
01:14:54,229 --> 01:14:52,920
Potter I was like I was

1659
01:14:57,500 --> 01:14:54,239
love to be in potions glass that looks

1660
01:15:00,439 --> 01:14:57,510
awesome it sounds so great you know so

1661
01:15:03,290 --> 01:15:00,449
for me like I don't know space is such

1662
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:03,300
it's such an impossibly huge problem

1663
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:05,130
those questions of the Big Bang and

1664
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:07,770
stuff that it's I love the math I love

1665
01:15:10,910 --> 01:15:09,840
all the the hard level high level

1666
01:15:12,860 --> 01:15:10,920
equations that come from it and

1667
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:12,870
everything and yeah those discussions

1668
01:15:21,530 --> 01:15:19,890
really fascinate me but again either you

1669
01:15:23,780 --> 01:15:21,540
just froze right now you're taking a

1670
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:23,790
very long pause I think it's a Skype

1671
01:15:29,390 --> 01:15:27,510
thing again so I'll probably finish that

1672
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:29,400
sentence for you

1673
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:32,730
so then again you just don't know that's

1674
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:34,880
the what I think you would have said and

1675
01:15:40,340 --> 01:15:37,890
I'm gonna hang in there and see if he

1676
01:15:41,900 --> 01:15:40,350
comes back if he doesn't come back in a

1677
01:15:42,740 --> 01:15:41,910
couple seconds here then I'm just gonna

1678
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:42,750
call him back

1679
01:15:51,020 --> 01:15:47,010
on skype so anyone can call in the show

1680
01:15:58,400 --> 01:15:51,030
that number is listed right up on on

1681
01:16:02,150 --> 01:15:58,410
YouTube channel over at kgr a radio I go

1682
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:02,160
ahead and have Evan if you would text

1683
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:04,260
that over that and that chat over to

1684
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:05,810
them in the chat room

1685
01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:11,570
and let's see oh there you are you back

1686
01:16:17,180 --> 01:16:14,640
you didn't know right you know meeting

1687
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:17,190
Wi-Fi networks you probably didn't know

1688
01:16:21,500 --> 01:16:20,250
you were gone and I finished the

1689
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:21,510
sentence for you

1690
01:16:29,300 --> 01:16:26,730
you listen back at the recording I hope

1691
01:16:34,130 --> 01:16:29,310
you're happy with what I said I finished

1692
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:34,140
your sentence and then at the beginning

1693
01:16:37,700 --> 01:16:35,730
of everything there was blank so I'm

1694
01:16:41,030 --> 01:16:37,710
hoping you said I don't know cheese or

1695
01:16:43,070 --> 01:16:41,040
something good has come from somewhere

1696
01:16:46,820 --> 01:16:43,080
it's made out of cheese so that's it yes

1697
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:46,830
all straight up yeah yeah so well I

1698
01:16:49,820 --> 01:16:48,570
think this is actually absolutely

1699
01:16:52,310 --> 01:16:49,830
fascinating really

1700
01:16:55,310 --> 01:16:52,320
and I'm sorry that you have your skype

1701
01:16:56,590 --> 01:16:55,320
issues you've had there but continuing

1702
01:17:01,490 --> 01:16:56,600
on

1703
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:01,500
so the different parts of your you know

1704
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:03,330
your education and your thoughts and all

1705
01:17:08,470 --> 01:17:06,050
that I believe I heard you say on al 100

1706
01:17:10,180 --> 01:17:08,480
show that you know you're you're the

1707
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:10,190
type of person doesn't really judge some

1708
01:17:15,819 --> 01:17:13,489
of you like you think people need to to

1709
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:15,829
say their thing and but whether it's

1710
01:17:17,919 --> 01:17:16,610
true or not

1711
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:17,929
that's where do you want to talk a

1712
01:17:24,490 --> 01:17:22,130
little bit about that sure so I so first

1713
01:17:27,819 --> 01:17:24,500
time I think there's there is a caveat

1714
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:27,829
to that I think so first off if if you

1715
01:17:34,890 --> 01:17:30,770
have had a an experience with something

1716
01:17:39,069 --> 01:17:34,900
a ghost a UFO whatever right I have

1717
01:17:41,140 --> 01:17:39,079
ultimately no I have no way of knowing

1718
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:41,150
whether or not what you experienced was

1719
01:17:46,379 --> 01:17:43,690
true or not and regardless of that even

1720
01:17:48,609 --> 01:17:46,389
unless you're just telling a lie

1721
01:17:48,970 --> 01:17:48,619
whatever you experienced really happened

1722
01:17:51,069 --> 01:17:48,980
to you

1723
01:17:53,770 --> 01:17:51,079
whether it was a mistake you know you

1724
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:53,780
mistook something else for something or

1725
01:17:59,140 --> 01:17:56,449
it was it was genuine something happened

1726
01:18:01,120 --> 01:17:59,150
to you and so from an investigative

1727
01:18:02,410 --> 01:18:01,130
standpoint or from the standpoint of say

1728
01:18:03,339 --> 01:18:02,420
anyone doing a good ethical

1729
01:18:07,089 --> 01:18:03,349
investigation

1730
01:18:08,589 --> 01:18:07,099
I can't presuppose you know oh I bet

1731
01:18:10,359 --> 01:18:08,599
this one's a hoax right this one I

1732
01:18:12,250 --> 01:18:10,369
definitely think is true you know real

1733
01:18:16,959 --> 01:18:12,260
or whatever that that should have no

1734
01:18:18,250 --> 01:18:16,969
play on how I take your story in and how

1735
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:18,260
I choose were investigated and the

1736
01:18:23,799 --> 01:18:21,440
ultimate conclusions that I draw at the

1737
01:18:28,859 --> 01:18:23,809
same time though I think that there is

1738
01:18:31,660 --> 01:18:28,869
great value in once you test something

1739
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:31,670
once something is proven to be something

1740
01:18:37,689 --> 01:18:35,210
or some way it's been proven it's you

1741
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:37,699
know that's it it's done stop talking

1742
01:18:44,919 --> 01:18:40,730
about it because and again that

1743
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:44,929
threshold for what is proven versus

1744
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:47,690
unproven that gets to be very tricky

1745
01:18:54,339 --> 01:18:52,000
always but still it's the only way that

1746
01:18:56,290 --> 01:18:54,349
is the only way that studies that

1747
01:19:00,339 --> 01:18:56,300
investigations of any sort happen

1748
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:00,349
accurately and happen over time so we

1749
01:19:07,180 --> 01:19:04,130
can take the example of it's it's one of

1750
01:19:09,939 --> 01:19:07,190
the hallmarks of pseudoscience in my

1751
01:19:13,750 --> 01:19:09,949
opinion that a pseudo scientific

1752
01:19:15,729 --> 01:19:13,760
principle never it's never refuted it's

1753
01:19:18,430 --> 01:19:15,739
never changed with evidence just sticks

1754
01:19:19,899 --> 01:19:18,440
around and the biggest hallmark really

1755
01:19:23,199 --> 01:19:19,909
is that not only does

1756
01:19:24,899 --> 01:19:23,209
to stick around it just changes forms so

1757
01:19:27,549 --> 01:19:24,909
when you disprove that it's something

1758
01:19:29,739 --> 01:19:27,559
the idea still sticks around they just

1759
01:19:32,379 --> 01:19:29,749
changed kind of the fabric or the

1760
01:19:35,589 --> 01:19:32,389
dressing of the idea so a good example

1761
01:19:38,919 --> 01:19:35,599
of that would be a good example of that

1762
01:19:42,129 --> 01:19:38,929
would say be the idea of witchcraft back

1763
01:19:44,739 --> 01:19:42,139
in the back in the medieval period all

1764
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:44,749
the way up to say the Protestant

1765
01:19:47,259 --> 01:19:45,530
Reformation

1766
01:19:52,719 --> 01:19:47,269
right for example and even to the modern

1767
01:19:55,060 --> 01:19:52,729
day let's say we're at the beginning of

1768
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:55,070
these ideas of demon lore and everything

1769
01:19:59,679 --> 01:19:57,530
else the idea of a witch was someone who

1770
01:20:03,520 --> 01:19:59,689
communicated directly with a being that

1771
01:20:05,679 --> 01:20:03,530
was as powerful as God right they were

1772
01:20:08,429 --> 01:20:05,689
communing with something that was seen

1773
01:20:10,899 --> 01:20:08,439
to be equal to God in its power it could

1774
01:20:13,509 --> 01:20:10,909
break the laws of the physical reality

1775
01:20:14,949 --> 01:20:13,519
that we live in it seemed to be under no

1776
01:20:17,819 --> 01:20:14,959
domain or Dominion it could just do

1777
01:20:20,409 --> 01:20:17,829
whatever it wanted but over time our

1778
01:20:23,709 --> 01:20:20,419
ideas about what a demon could be or

1779
01:20:25,689 --> 01:20:23,719
couldn't be changed so you had people

1780
01:20:28,209 --> 01:20:25,699
like say st. Augustine coming in and

1781
01:20:31,830 --> 01:20:28,219
saying or st. Thomas Aquinas coming and

1782
01:20:33,609 --> 01:20:31,840
saying well no it doesn't even

1783
01:20:37,659 --> 01:20:33,619
philosophically or theologically it

1784
01:20:40,089 --> 01:20:37,669
doesn't make sense that something evil

1785
01:20:42,279 --> 01:20:40,099
could be as good as the ultimate good or

1786
01:20:45,759 --> 01:20:42,289
the ultimate creator or whatever so

1787
01:20:47,859 --> 01:20:45,769
those ideas had to be thrown away and so

1788
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:47,869
those arguments stopped being made but

1789
01:20:54,219 --> 01:20:51,530
the ultimate idea that let's say for

1790
01:20:57,279 --> 01:20:54,229
example a witch could poison your family

1791
01:20:59,259 --> 01:20:57,289
or make you ill or something that was no

1792
01:21:01,569 --> 01:20:59,269
longer because they were putting a curse

1793
01:21:04,449 --> 01:21:01,579
on you and changing the way that you

1794
01:21:07,149 --> 01:21:04,459
acted or whatever it simply changed over

1795
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:07,159
to well now they're learning you know

1796
01:21:10,839 --> 01:21:09,050
the demon is bringing them special

1797
01:21:13,449 --> 01:21:10,849
poultices and potions and things that

1798
01:21:14,620 --> 01:21:13,459
will poison you and so they're just it's

1799
01:21:17,679 --> 01:21:14,630
just that the demon is more

1800
01:21:20,979 --> 01:21:17,689
knowledgeable than you are and over time

1801
01:21:23,259 --> 01:21:20,989
that idea kept shrinking the role of the

1802
01:21:27,459 --> 01:21:23,269
powers of the demon of the witch shrunk

1803
01:21:31,060 --> 01:21:27,469
to such a point that the modern-day

1804
01:21:33,470 --> 01:21:31,070
viewpoint of say I mean the idea of a

1805
01:21:36,140 --> 01:21:33,480
witch as being something

1806
01:21:37,729 --> 01:21:36,150
truly frightening is gone today we

1807
01:21:40,940 --> 01:21:37,739
hardly think of them as being powerful

1808
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:40,950
malevolent malevolent beings right and

1809
01:21:46,610 --> 01:21:43,890
that's kind of but again those ideas

1810
01:21:49,610 --> 01:21:46,620
have just shifted so as opposed to say

1811
01:21:51,440 --> 01:21:49,620
we think that people could be demon

1812
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:51,450
human hybrids that are coming to wreak

1813
01:21:56,150 --> 01:21:53,130
havoc on the earth we think about

1814
01:22:00,530 --> 01:21:56,160
alien-human hybrids right as opposed to

1815
01:22:02,090 --> 01:22:00,540
thinking about say you get the point I'm

1816
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:02,100
making right these ideas just stick

1817
01:22:08,900 --> 01:22:06,480
around and don't change if if we hope to

1818
01:22:13,700 --> 01:22:08,910
make you apology a real study a real

1819
01:22:17,270 --> 01:22:13,710
science we need to be able to find new

1820
01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:17,280
evidence refute old ideas with that

1821
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,440
evidence and then move forward with new

1822
01:22:24,650 --> 01:22:21,840
ideas because otherwise we're just gonna

1823
01:22:25,729 --> 01:22:24,660
be talking about the same cases and

1824
01:22:32,090 --> 01:22:25,739
forever and ever and ever

1825
01:22:35,060 --> 01:22:32,100
that's kind of where we've been so do

1826
01:22:39,410 --> 01:22:35,070
you think the and in general the UFO

1827
01:22:42,229 --> 01:22:39,420
community as stagnant at this point and

1828
01:22:45,770 --> 01:22:42,239
in the stagnation do you think some of

1829
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:45,780
that comes from you know no like big

1830
01:22:51,140 --> 01:22:47,730
sightings happening that people are

1831
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:51,150
talking about or and to throw that in

1832
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:53,489
the whole mix I'm sure you were paying

1833
01:22:59,060 --> 01:22:56,610
attention when the December 16th article

1834
01:23:01,700 --> 01:22:59,070
came out in the New York Times excuse me

1835
01:23:06,979 --> 01:23:01,710
and people seem to take the topic a lot

1836
01:23:12,700 --> 01:23:06,989
more serious yeah so I am one of those

1837
01:23:16,820 --> 01:23:12,710
people that so I would think or I think

1838
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:16,830
that the study of UFOs is if it is a

1839
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:18,330
science if there's something real

1840
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:19,290
happening and even if there isn't

1841
01:23:23,390 --> 01:23:21,090
something real if we want to treat it

1842
01:23:27,710 --> 01:23:23,400
like a science then we should look at

1843
01:23:30,470 --> 01:23:27,720
other sciences that have affected large

1844
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:30,480
dispersed populations of people in a

1845
01:23:35,260 --> 01:23:33,450
seemingly random manner how did we

1846
01:23:38,090 --> 01:23:35,270
remove the randomness from that equation

1847
01:23:41,170 --> 01:23:38,100
we didn't do it by looking at individual

1848
01:23:44,180 --> 01:23:41,180
cases we did it by looking at statistics

1849
01:23:45,420 --> 01:23:44,190
so I give an example of I always give

1850
01:23:47,940 --> 01:23:45,430
this example

1851
01:23:51,570 --> 01:23:47,950
of diseases and how diseases spread

1852
01:23:53,340 --> 01:23:51,580
through populations right if you wanted

1853
01:23:56,370 --> 01:23:53,350
to find what the cause was for a new

1854
01:23:58,800 --> 01:23:56,380
type of disease you wouldn't be wasting

1855
01:24:01,050 --> 01:23:58,810
your time going to every hospital ward

1856
01:24:03,690 --> 01:24:01,060
and investigating every single

1857
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:03,700
individual case and hoping that that one

1858
01:24:07,140 --> 01:24:05,650
case is the one that gives you the

1859
01:24:09,530 --> 01:24:07,150
smoking gun that this is where this

1860
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:09,540
disease is coming from you would study

1861
01:24:13,950 --> 01:24:11,650
thousands of cases over a large

1862
01:24:17,180 --> 01:24:13,960
population sample and see where the

1863
01:24:22,710 --> 01:24:17,190
commonalities are that's where I think

1864
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:22,720
the UFO field should move towards I have

1865
01:24:35,670 --> 01:24:32,780
right around the time where public

1866
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:35,680
perception of UFOs as a topic seems to

1867
01:24:39,300 --> 01:24:37,930
be kind of hitting the upswing where

1868
01:24:44,070 --> 01:24:39,310
people are starting to be more open to

1869
01:24:46,980 --> 01:24:44,080
the idea yeah generally that there

1870
01:24:50,430 --> 01:24:46,990
really has not been a very good a very

1871
01:24:52,230 --> 01:24:50,440
very good case and I wonder almost if

1872
01:24:55,590 --> 01:24:52,240
that isn't because we're trying to be

1873
01:24:58,260 --> 01:24:55,600
more careful this time around about what

1874
01:25:02,250 --> 01:24:58,270
case we put out there right I mean you

1875
01:25:06,300 --> 01:25:02,260
have this very small glimmer of public

1876
01:25:09,450 --> 01:25:06,310
support that's coming out and you know

1877
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:09,460
you don't want to ruin that by I don't

1878
01:25:13,770 --> 01:25:10,930
know shouting from the rooftops the

1879
01:25:20,490 --> 01:25:13,780
first case that you think but at the

1880
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:20,500
same time - I think that I do think that

1881
01:25:25,890 --> 01:25:22,210
in some ways that the field is kind of

1882
01:25:31,050 --> 01:25:25,900
stagnated but that's only true at these

1883
01:25:33,480 --> 01:25:31,060
large I think that's only true of say oh

1884
01:25:35,700 --> 01:25:33,490
the old way of thinking about the

1885
01:25:37,530 --> 01:25:35,710
question I think there's a lot of young

1886
01:25:42,180 --> 01:25:37,540
researchers and a lot of independent

1887
01:25:45,530 --> 01:25:42,190
people writing books doing research

1888
01:25:47,550 --> 01:25:45,540
investigating these things that are

1889
01:25:49,830 --> 01:25:47,560
adding something to the equation that

1890
01:25:52,580 --> 01:25:49,840
wasn't there before and honestly I mean

1891
01:25:54,690 --> 01:25:52,590
I have found a lot of really wonderful

1892
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:54,700
people who are interested in this

1893
01:25:58,740 --> 01:25:56,290
subject and who want to talk about it

1894
01:26:01,230 --> 01:25:58,750
and want to learn more through the me

1895
01:26:02,970 --> 01:26:01,240
of podcasting and on you know there are

1896
01:26:06,480 --> 01:26:02,980
so many great podcasts that do this sort

1897
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:06,490
of topic right that again I think I

1898
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:09,250
think the public I think the public

1899
01:26:12,740 --> 01:26:11,290
knowledge of the idea is just gonna keep

1900
01:26:15,570 --> 01:26:12,750
going up it's going to keep rising

1901
01:26:16,950 --> 01:26:15,580
whether or not that is ultimately

1902
01:26:20,100 --> 01:26:16,960
handled the right way or not by the

1903
01:26:22,710 --> 01:26:20,110
community is something entirely I don't

1904
01:26:25,350 --> 01:26:22,720
know if that's gonna be the case but I'm

1905
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:25,360
hopeful I'm hopeful yeah there's a

1906
01:26:30,990 --> 01:26:28,210
there's one thing I've brought up on

1907
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:31,000
number of times on the show and and that

1908
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:34,570
is you know that when people first start

1909
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:36,480
look if someone all of a sudden you know

1910
01:26:41,370 --> 01:26:39,010
takes it serious that never really

1911
01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:41,380
thought about it because of say the

1912
01:26:44,940 --> 01:26:43,510
September 16th article and they saw it

1913
01:26:46,860 --> 01:26:44,950
in the news a number of times and all

1914
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:46,870
that and then they start poking around

1915
01:26:51,480 --> 01:26:48,970
on YouTube you know they're gonna come

1916
01:26:54,390 --> 01:26:51,490
on a couple of websites I mean a couple

1917
01:26:57,330 --> 01:26:54,400
of channels that are known for hoaxes

1918
01:27:00,240 --> 01:26:57,340
UFOs and you know it's a dead-end street

1919
01:27:02,580 --> 01:27:00,250
when it comes to stuff like that yeah

1920
01:27:06,180 --> 01:27:02,590
and that's kind of honestly it's it's

1921
01:27:07,950 --> 01:27:06,190
why I think it's so important that one

1922
01:27:13,290 --> 01:27:07,960
of the first things that we should do as

1923
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:13,300
a group as a community is get rid of you

1924
01:27:19,340 --> 01:27:16,210
know you got a prune away the dead the

1925
01:27:22,530 --> 01:27:19,350
dead branches right those dead ends I

1926
01:27:24,660 --> 01:27:22,540
mean off the top of if we had another

1927
01:27:28,440 --> 01:27:24,670
two hours we could probably talk

1928
01:27:31,740 --> 01:27:28,450
non-stop just listing names of cases and

1929
01:27:34,260 --> 01:27:31,750
YouTube channels and you know books and

1930
01:27:39,210 --> 01:27:34,270
whatever that are have been disproven to

1931
01:27:40,860 --> 01:27:39,220
the point of yeah just ridiculousness

1932
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:40,870
right I mean how many books have to come

1933
01:27:46,830 --> 01:27:43,210
out that then disprove the same thing

1934
01:27:51,150 --> 01:27:46,840
before we get the picture yeah and so

1935
01:27:53,690 --> 01:27:51,160
the it is a big problem I think and

1936
01:27:57,360 --> 01:27:53,700
because we haven't done our own

1937
01:27:59,070 --> 01:27:57,370
housekeeping I guess it is that way that

1938
01:28:02,190 --> 01:27:59,080
the first thing people are gonna find

1939
01:28:04,020 --> 01:28:02,200
when they I mean I always give this

1940
01:28:06,660 --> 01:28:04,030
example because I think it's I I think

1941
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:06,670
it's a big issue one of the first things

1942
01:28:11,340 --> 01:28:08,770
that comes up if you look for UFOs on

1943
01:28:12,540 --> 01:28:11,350
Facebook are these groups of people who

1944
01:28:16,050 --> 01:28:12,550
think they're starseeds

1945
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:16,060
oh really yeah I've never done spearmint

1946
01:28:19,590 --> 01:28:17,410
so oh my goodness

1947
01:28:23,490 --> 01:28:19,600
it's it's interesting right or if you

1948
01:28:25,260 --> 01:28:23,500
search for you know aliens or greys or

1949
01:28:26,610 --> 01:28:25,270
anything else right stuff that kind of

1950
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:26,620
buzzwords that the public will know

1951
01:28:31,470 --> 01:28:29,530
about one of the first things you get

1952
01:28:34,170 --> 01:28:31,480
are these groups of people who are you

1953
01:28:36,570 --> 01:28:34,180
know all my aura today is really dark

1954
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:36,580
I'm you know I'm really feeling it today

1955
01:28:43,790 --> 01:28:38,890
I wish I was back home on you know

1956
01:28:46,350 --> 01:28:43,800
wherever right that's not a great look

1957
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:46,360
it's just it's it's not you know it's

1958
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:48,970
it's it's it's gonna be a challenge I

1959
01:28:56,580 --> 01:28:51,850
think so yeah i just i just did the

1960
01:28:59,130 --> 01:28:56,590
experiment myself again here alien UFO

1961
01:29:03,960 --> 01:28:59,140
sightings reptilians UFOs and

1962
01:29:06,150 --> 01:29:03,970
conspiracies you know that's kind of

1963
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:06,160
taken over by the fringe of it really

1964
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:07,920
it definitely has been and that's

1965
01:29:16,020 --> 01:29:12,210
unfortunate because again there are I

1966
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:16,030
mean you know my first my first big

1967
01:29:20,910 --> 01:29:17,920
event that I went to you with this kind

1968
01:29:24,540 --> 01:29:20,920
of stuff I met you know I met scientist

1969
01:29:28,290 --> 01:29:24,550
who worked on you know worked on nuclear

1970
01:29:29,790 --> 01:29:28,300
power I talked to you know bank

1971
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:29,800
executives and economic you know

1972
01:29:36,270 --> 01:29:32,530
economists and psychologists and

1973
01:29:38,250 --> 01:29:36,280
professors and you know all these

1974
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:38,260
wonderful people with all these great

1975
01:29:42,690 --> 01:29:39,970
backgrounds and all this this vast

1976
01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:42,700
knowledge you know so much more

1977
01:29:49,500 --> 01:29:45,520
knowledge than I one person by

1978
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:49,510
themselves can contain but because

1979
01:29:56,040 --> 01:29:52,570
there's kind of a loud loud I guess

1980
01:29:58,950 --> 01:29:56,050
minority opinion you know shouting you

1981
01:30:01,440 --> 01:29:58,960
know we're aliens that's what some

1982
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:01,450
people are gonna see so I really do

1983
01:30:09,660 --> 01:30:05,250
think it's it's important that we try to

1984
01:30:12,390 --> 01:30:09,670
both get ahead of that message so that

1985
01:30:14,700 --> 01:30:12,400
when the public perception does shift we

1986
01:30:16,740 --> 01:30:14,710
don't again kind of throw it out the

1987
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:16,750
window but at the same time we do have

1988
01:30:22,380 --> 01:30:20,410
to as a community find a better way of

1989
01:30:25,890 --> 01:30:22,390
engaging groups like that I think yeah

1990
01:30:28,890 --> 01:30:25,900
because you know again that

1991
01:30:30,540 --> 01:30:28,900
good question of well if it's if they

1992
01:30:32,430 --> 01:30:30,550
don't really think this you know it's

1993
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:32,440
just role play is it do people really

1994
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:34,570
believe this is there something to this

1995
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:36,489
like all those ideas at this point are

1996
01:30:40,830 --> 01:30:38,650
all equally valid although some are more

1997
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:40,840
likely than others let's say because we

1998
01:30:47,430 --> 01:30:44,530
haven't looked at it at all and so I

1999
01:30:51,510 --> 01:30:47,440
think it's important that we again

2000
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:51,520
you can't silence opinions but once you

2001
01:30:55,860 --> 01:30:54,850
have found a conclusion you should you

2002
01:30:58,470 --> 01:30:55,870
should probably put it out there for

2003
01:30:59,970 --> 01:30:58,480
other people to try to tear down and

2004
01:31:01,530 --> 01:30:59,980
then see what happens it's the way that

2005
01:31:04,260 --> 01:31:01,540
science the way that progress like that

2006
01:31:08,250 --> 01:31:04,270
happens right yeah there's really

2007
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:08,260
nothing we can do about you know the the

2008
01:31:12,450 --> 01:31:10,690
way out there and the hoaxes and all

2009
01:31:15,270 --> 01:31:12,460
that the only thing we can do is keep

2010
01:31:19,169 --> 01:31:15,280
our side of the street clean and but and

2011
01:31:20,700 --> 01:31:19,179
if someone approaches us that wants to

2012
01:31:24,169 --> 01:31:20,710
talk then I do get a lot of email from

2013
01:31:27,030 --> 01:31:24,179
people and try to talk to them logically

2014
01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:27,040
so up on the chat room there was a

2015
01:31:32,910 --> 01:31:28,960
question and anyone feel free to call in

2016
01:31:34,850 --> 01:31:32,920
the numbers up on the screen this

2017
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:34,860
Michael wanted to know do you believe in

2018
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:39,010
cold fusion and free energy and that

2019
01:31:43,950 --> 01:31:40,810
aliens have already figured that out

2020
01:31:48,930 --> 01:31:43,960
that's an interesting question yeah I

2021
01:31:50,340 --> 01:31:48,940
think that so so ok there's a couple of

2022
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:50,350
things there there's it's like three

2023
01:31:57,270 --> 01:31:54,330
separate questions rolled in on yeah I

2024
01:32:00,990 --> 01:31:57,280
believe in theory that cold fusion could

2025
01:32:05,810 --> 01:32:01,000
happen it hasn't yet as far as I can

2026
01:32:07,919 --> 01:32:05,820
tell but I do think though that it's

2027
01:32:12,060 --> 01:32:07,929
again it's one of those interesting

2028
01:32:14,370 --> 01:32:12,070
thought experiments where if you look at

2029
01:32:16,430 --> 01:32:14,380
if you look at the question from a

2030
01:32:18,899 --> 01:32:16,440
scientific perspective

2031
01:32:20,669 --> 01:32:18,909
it appears that okay well we don't have

2032
01:32:23,459 --> 01:32:20,679
it why would we ever hide it if we had

2033
01:32:26,910 --> 01:32:23,469
it etc etc or whatever but from the

2034
01:32:28,709 --> 01:32:26,920
philosophical standpoint in my mind you

2035
01:32:31,860 --> 01:32:28,719
can see good reasons why if we did have

2036
01:32:34,050 --> 01:32:31,870
it we might hide it right the economy

2037
01:32:39,300 --> 01:32:34,060
runs on energy rather a basis of the

2038
01:32:43,170 --> 01:32:39,310
economy so potentially it is a very good

2039
01:32:44,730 --> 01:32:43,180
I don't know I don't know anyways but I

2040
01:32:46,620 --> 01:32:44,740
think that there's a lot of things there

2041
01:32:49,410 --> 01:32:46,630
to unpack and think about it and talk

2042
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:49,420
about potentially if you are even coming

2043
01:32:53,610 --> 01:32:51,250
at it academically from a non scientific

2044
01:32:56,700 --> 01:32:53,620
point of view it's an important question

2045
01:32:58,860 --> 01:32:56,710
I think of if we did have that access

2046
01:33:00,620 --> 01:32:58,870
what we do what is a society that has

2047
01:33:03,780 --> 01:33:00,630
access to that kind of energy source

2048
01:33:05,850 --> 01:33:03,790
like or what might it be like I would

2049
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:05,860
argue that if there is a civilization

2050
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:09,690
that can travel here they must have some

2051
01:33:16,620 --> 01:33:12,730
access to an extreme source of efficient

2052
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:16,630
energy what that energy source is we

2053
01:33:23,790 --> 01:33:20,290
don't know but I would say though that

2054
01:33:26,220 --> 01:33:23,800
just from thermodynamics no energy is

2055
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:26,230
free right there's zero point energy

2056
01:33:30,450 --> 01:33:28,570
potentially but even that then has to be

2057
01:33:32,580 --> 01:33:30,460
coming from someplace energy can't be

2058
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:32,590
created or destroyed it has to transport

2059
01:33:40,380 --> 01:33:37,690
somehow so I I suspect that if they do

2060
01:33:42,450 --> 01:33:40,390
have the ability to travel here they

2061
01:33:45,450 --> 01:33:42,460
have access to some either

2062
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:45,460
extraordinarily energy dense type of way

2063
01:33:53,820 --> 01:33:50,530
of holding energy or they are very adept

2064
01:33:55,290 --> 01:33:53,830
at generating or harvesting energy from

2065
01:33:59,640 --> 01:33:55,300
sources that we don't know of currently

2066
01:34:03,270 --> 01:33:59,650
on earth yeah yeah I've thought of stuff

2067
01:34:04,890 --> 01:34:03,280
like that and you know one of the things

2068
01:34:06,270 --> 01:34:04,900
I've said maybe they just figured

2069
01:34:09,480 --> 01:34:06,280
something out in physics that we never

2070
01:34:15,810 --> 01:34:09,490
could never even think of yet or Maine

2071
01:34:17,670 --> 01:34:15,820
never let's see this is this is going

2072
01:34:22,350 --> 01:34:17,680
back to the Big Bang someone just astin

2073
01:34:26,420 --> 01:34:22,360
over at the kgr a radio chat Ronald did

2074
01:34:29,610 --> 01:34:26,430
the Big Bang occur with a single Bang

2075
01:34:37,050 --> 01:34:29,620
that's another softball I like to think

2076
01:34:38,490 --> 01:34:37,060
it was a drum solo and there our theory

2077
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:38,500
said it's happened you know like the

2078
01:34:44,220 --> 01:34:42,010
universe has shrunken down to this tiny

2079
01:34:47,490 --> 01:34:44,230
little mass and you know blown up and

2080
01:34:50,280 --> 01:34:47,500
has done this repeatedly you know

2081
01:34:55,980 --> 01:34:50,290
throughout time whatever you know time

2082
01:35:02,550 --> 01:34:55,990
is so yeah all philosophical questions

2083
01:35:04,260 --> 01:35:02,560
really someone was asking I know we

2084
01:35:07,710 --> 01:35:04,270
talked about MUFON and gone but they

2085
01:35:09,630 --> 01:35:07,720
said did did you ever feel like MUFON

2086
01:35:10,940 --> 01:35:09,640
was like almost like

2087
01:35:13,140 --> 01:35:10,950
[Music]

2088
01:35:16,050 --> 01:35:13,150
government-controlled in any type of way

2089
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:16,060
and did you ever have any of those

2090
01:35:22,140 --> 01:35:17,650
thoughts I don't know exactly what the

2091
01:35:24,270 --> 01:35:22,150
question was only and that MUFON only in

2092
01:35:29,820 --> 01:35:24,280
that only a government could be as

2093
01:35:35,190 --> 01:35:33,390
no so I never found any evidence or saw

2094
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:35,200
any evidence or felt at all that MUFON

2095
01:35:40,350 --> 01:35:38,770
was being you know when this question

2096
01:35:43,140 --> 01:35:40,360
attached to guested in three different

2097
01:35:46,230 --> 01:35:43,150
ways right the first question is was

2098
01:35:47,820 --> 01:35:46,240
MUFON being run well why humans by

2099
01:35:49,410 --> 01:35:47,830
people right just everyday people that

2100
01:35:52,230 --> 01:35:49,420
are interested okay fine that's one

2101
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:52,240
question the next one is is MUFON being

2102
01:35:55,890 --> 01:35:54,370
controlled by the government or new

2103
01:35:57,270 --> 01:35:55,900
world order or whatever that's a

2104
01:35:59,780 --> 01:35:57,280
different type of question the deep stay

2105
01:36:02,010 --> 01:35:59,790
yeah right and then the third one is is

2106
01:36:05,970 --> 01:36:02,020
MUFON being controlled by Robert Bigelow

2107
01:36:10,490 --> 01:36:05,980
that's the Thunder stand the Bigelow one

2108
01:36:12,390 --> 01:36:10,500
because definitely in in or in order of

2109
01:36:14,460 --> 01:36:12,400
well no I guess not an order of

2110
01:36:16,230 --> 01:36:14,470
likelihood but yeah no I completely

2111
01:36:20,910 --> 01:36:16,240
understand the Bigelow one as well right

2112
01:36:22,170 --> 01:36:20,920
the I never felt any evidence that it

2113
01:36:24,570 --> 01:36:22,180
was being so to answer your question

2114
01:36:26,790 --> 01:36:24,580
seriously I never felt any evidence that

2115
01:36:31,020 --> 01:36:26,800
there was government control or anything

2116
01:36:33,180 --> 01:36:31,030
like that any specific specific method

2117
01:36:35,850 --> 01:36:33,190
of disinformation or anything frankly I

2118
01:36:40,050 --> 01:36:35,860
think that we have done such a good job

2119
01:36:43,020 --> 01:36:40,060
ourselves of chasing our own tail that

2120
01:36:44,310 --> 01:36:43,030
we make erroneous information yeah the

2121
01:36:46,260 --> 01:36:44,320
government hasn't you know the

2122
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:46,270
government that's the beauty of Facebook

2123
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:48,370
right and these other things the

2124
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:51,850
government is like look all we had to do

2125
01:36:55,350 --> 01:36:54,010
was ask them to do this I mean you know

2126
01:36:58,890 --> 01:36:55,360
we're given the ability they do it

2127
01:37:00,990 --> 01:36:58,900
themselves this is great so uh no I I

2128
01:37:04,410 --> 01:37:01,000
never had any evidence of things like

2129
01:37:10,020 --> 01:37:04,420
that I will say that

2130
01:37:12,330 --> 01:37:10,030
I will say that your experience with

2131
01:37:16,140 --> 01:37:12,340
MUFON though will change drastically

2132
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:16,150
from from chapter to chapter is what I

2133
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:19,570
found and experienced where there are

2134
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:23,890
some chapters where it is run like a run

2135
01:37:28,140 --> 01:37:26,410
like a like an investigative force right

2136
01:37:29,850 --> 01:37:28,150
and then there are some chapters where

2137
01:37:31,470 --> 01:37:29,860
it's you know you're hanging out on the

2138
01:37:34,590 --> 01:37:31,480
weekends and drinking coffee and

2139
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:34,600
watching weird documentaries so it is

2140
01:37:42,900 --> 01:37:37,600
very is definitely varied but yeah again

2141
01:37:44,010 --> 01:37:42,910
personally I found no evidence of

2142
01:37:46,890 --> 01:37:44,020
anything like that any government

2143
01:37:48,450 --> 01:37:46,900
interference or anything well you know I

2144
01:37:52,740 --> 01:37:48,460
was trying to look while you were

2145
01:37:54,810 --> 01:37:52,750
talking and race Stanford has been on

2146
01:37:57,689 --> 01:37:54,820
the show not sure of you familiar with

2147
01:38:00,300 --> 01:37:57,699
who he is he's a longtime researcher he

2148
01:38:05,250 --> 01:38:00,310
often listens to the show and he was

2149
01:38:08,459 --> 01:38:05,260
basically the first researcher outside

2150
01:38:12,150 --> 01:38:08,469
of Project Blue Book that showed up at

2151
01:38:14,459 --> 01:38:12,160
the Socorro incident and wrote a book a

2152
01:38:18,300 --> 01:38:14,469
very good book actually about the

2153
01:38:21,380 --> 01:38:18,310
Socorro incident and Ray has a Ray has a

2154
01:38:26,189 --> 01:38:21,390
story about being at a MUFON a

2155
01:38:30,479 --> 01:38:26,199
spectacular MUFON event back in the I

2156
01:38:34,050 --> 01:38:30,489
think he said it was the 1980s and there

2157
01:38:36,180 --> 01:38:34,060
was he there was a company that he said

2158
01:38:38,430 --> 01:38:36,190
no one he was part of it he's part of

2159
01:38:41,850 --> 01:38:38,440
the set up he said how can MUFON afford

2160
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:41,860
this it was like it was a six-figure

2161
01:38:48,630 --> 01:38:46,690
event and so oh we have a sponsor and

2162
01:38:50,669 --> 01:38:48,640
it's this company and Ray did research

2163
01:38:55,169 --> 01:38:50,679
and found out that it was a shell

2164
01:38:56,580 --> 01:38:55,179
company for actually it had something to

2165
01:38:59,939 --> 01:38:56,590
do with the government so there was

2166
01:39:02,850 --> 01:38:59,949
suspicion from him and he actually when

2167
01:39:04,290 --> 01:39:02,860
I had gen horizont on the show a year

2168
01:39:06,180 --> 01:39:04,300
and a half was two years ago whatever

2169
01:39:08,189 --> 01:39:06,190
ray actually called in and confronted

2170
01:39:10,169 --> 01:39:08,199
him and he didn't really have you know

2171
01:39:12,780 --> 01:39:10,179
he had no idea and of course you know I

2172
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:12,790
mean you know he it wouldn't be

2173
01:39:15,540 --> 01:39:14,050
something that would be passed down

2174
01:39:16,979 --> 01:39:15,550
through a MUFON you know if that's

2175
01:39:18,060 --> 01:39:16,989
something like that did happen I thought

2176
01:39:24,030 --> 01:39:18,070
it was interesting anyway

2177
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:24,040
yeah I'll I'll say this if move on it's

2178
01:39:29,210 --> 01:39:26,050
a charitable organization in the United

2179
01:39:30,990 --> 01:39:29,220
States right which means that in theory

2180
01:39:34,860 --> 01:39:31,000
although this actually debt actually

2181
01:39:37,740 --> 01:39:34,870
might be changing soon with certain law

2182
01:39:40,260 --> 01:39:37,750
changes or whatever but whatever for the

2183
01:39:41,910 --> 01:39:40,270
time being at least that means that you

2184
01:39:44,660 --> 01:39:41,920
can look up their financial records for

2185
01:39:47,670 --> 01:39:44,670
free online like any other charity and

2186
01:39:53,400 --> 01:39:47,680
so if you're really interested you can

2187
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:53,410
do that and you know again at the time

2188
01:39:58,490 --> 01:39:56,800
that you know besides my lanyard I

2189
01:40:01,860 --> 01:39:58,500
bought everything myself

2190
01:40:05,130 --> 01:40:01,870
right so if there was government funding

2191
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:05,140
going on I have some expense reports to

2192
01:40:11,090 --> 01:40:09,370
fill out I think you know no butts but

2193
01:40:13,890 --> 01:40:11,100
seriously though I do think that

2194
01:40:16,650 --> 01:40:13,900
actually I just went I just want to stop

2195
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:16,660
you there just to clarify that this was

2196
01:40:23,340 --> 01:40:20,370
only for this specific event and it was

2197
01:40:24,750 --> 01:40:23,350
I remember ray was telling me I think

2198
01:40:27,530 --> 01:40:24,760
Uri Geller was there and there was a

2199
01:40:31,500 --> 01:40:27,540
couple of things that were kind of

2200
01:40:33,900 --> 01:40:31,510
different you know and so it was only

2201
01:40:35,940 --> 01:40:33,910
for the event that he knew about I don't

2202
01:40:37,710 --> 01:40:35,950
think you know it was any mention of any

2203
01:40:40,050 --> 01:40:37,720
other thing to do with MUFON other than

2204
01:40:43,950 --> 01:40:40,060
that I was going to say I mean I I do

2205
01:40:45,810 --> 01:40:43,960
think that there are some I'm gonna say

2206
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:45,820
as hopeful as I am about say to the

2207
01:40:55,740 --> 01:40:51,090
Stars Academy uh-huh I think that again

2208
01:40:58,230 --> 01:40:55,750
it's that is going to become an area

2209
01:41:00,210 --> 01:40:58,240
rife for conspiracy theory online and

2210
01:41:04,050 --> 01:41:00,220
these ideas everything else right it

2211
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:04,060
already is really yeah I've gotten a lot

2212
01:41:09,060 --> 01:41:05,890
of email from different people about

2213
01:41:11,220 --> 01:41:09,070
that yes sure and so I do think that

2214
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:11,230
it's although I hope that they do well

2215
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:14,530
and I you know frankly I mean if you

2216
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:17,050
know I got a phone call tomorrow like

2217
01:41:23,100 --> 01:41:18,730
come on board I'd be like yes I'm going

2218
01:41:24,510 --> 01:41:23,110
you know but if again we that's why it's

2219
01:41:26,460 --> 01:41:24,520
so important to have multiple groups

2220
01:41:27,860 --> 01:41:26,470
doing this not have one centralized

2221
01:41:30,810 --> 01:41:27,870
group it's why it's so important to have

2222
01:41:31,740 --> 01:41:30,820
healthy peer review and competition in a

2223
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:31,750
sign in a

2224
01:41:37,010 --> 01:41:34,210
in any kind of study field because if

2225
01:41:39,990 --> 01:41:37,020
not it becomes very easy for one group

2226
01:41:44,160 --> 01:41:40,000
even if say it's not government money it

2227
01:41:45,900 --> 01:41:44,170
could be it could be a single person it

2228
01:41:48,630 --> 01:41:45,910
could be a certain group of people it

2229
01:41:51,510 --> 01:41:48,640
could be you know some I don't know a

2230
01:41:54,540 --> 01:41:51,520
book publisher decides to whatever help

2231
01:41:55,740 --> 01:41:54,550
fund half of you know group A's expenses

2232
01:41:57,450 --> 01:41:55,750
and all of a sudden they're Hawking all

2233
01:42:00,920 --> 01:41:57,460
their books all the time right like all

2234
01:42:03,750 --> 01:42:00,930
of that goes away if you have a robust

2235
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:03,760
healthy community that is engaged in

2236
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:06,970
peer review and critique so it's part of

2237
01:42:11,580 --> 01:42:09,130
why I think although it's great that to

2238
01:42:12,780 --> 01:42:11,590
the stars is going on and everything we

2239
01:42:15,870 --> 01:42:12,790
can't put all our eggs in that basket

2240
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:15,880
because you know it's not gonna take a

2241
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:18,970
lot for what they're doing to be called

2242
01:42:23,610 --> 01:42:20,290
into question and what if they find

2243
01:42:25,340 --> 01:42:23,620
nothing right and then that was supposed

2244
01:42:28,890 --> 01:42:25,350
to be the thing that proved UFO is real

2245
01:42:30,900 --> 01:42:28,900
you know to the whole public too so it's

2246
01:42:35,070 --> 01:42:30,910
I don't think it's a great position to

2247
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:35,080
put our field in frankly okay so we have

2248
01:42:41,820 --> 01:42:37,690
another we have another question from

2249
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:41,830
silly humans on in the chatroom and I

2250
01:42:49,050 --> 01:42:45,970
agree with him his name so the question

2251
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:49,060
is what about the idea that UFO physics

2252
01:42:53,330 --> 01:42:51,250
tech is being suppressed because it

2253
01:42:56,130 --> 01:42:53,340
would make a frightening Lee

2254
01:42:59,130 --> 01:42:56,140
instantaneous weapon delivery system

2255
01:43:01,200 --> 01:42:59,140
there's been I know you know Stan

2256
01:43:04,500 --> 01:43:01,210
Freeman has talked about that like if

2257
01:43:10,410 --> 01:43:04,510
it's you know what if they if we had it

2258
01:43:13,350 --> 01:43:10,420
and they didn't type of thing yeah let's

2259
01:43:15,020 --> 01:43:13,360
put it this way if if there if there

2260
01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:15,030
either has been or if there will be

2261
01:43:19,980 --> 01:43:17,290
something like that happening on earth

2262
01:43:25,280 --> 01:43:19,990
where an alien civilization comes down

2263
01:43:27,780 --> 01:43:25,290
and you know whatever country they pick

2264
01:43:31,940 --> 01:43:27,790
that country becomes the center of the

2265
01:43:34,050 --> 01:43:31,950
world you know they show up in Belarus

2266
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:34,060
well looks like we're learning

2267
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:38,650
Belarusian that's it I mean the advanced

2268
01:43:41,790 --> 01:43:41,290
in technology in my opinion would be

2269
01:43:43,770 --> 01:43:41,800
yeah

2270
01:43:45,220 --> 01:43:43,780
same kind of idea it would be so vast

2271
01:43:47,500 --> 01:43:45,230
the

2272
01:43:52,479 --> 01:43:47,510
it would it would just upend things

2273
01:43:53,589 --> 01:43:52,489
completely now in terms of I don't know

2274
01:43:56,169 --> 01:43:53,599
in terms of these more metaphysical

2275
01:43:58,089 --> 01:43:56,179
questions of say it's being suppressed

2276
01:44:00,040 --> 01:43:58,099
because humans can't handle it or we'll

2277
01:44:02,500 --> 01:44:00,050
all kill each other or whatever look

2278
01:44:04,089 --> 01:44:02,510
what we're doing with Facebook you know

2279
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:04,099
there's if there was ever evidence that

2280
01:44:09,339 --> 01:44:06,530
we weren't ready for a technology in his

2281
01:44:11,589 --> 01:44:09,349
Facebook yeah we enjoyed that lately

2282
01:44:13,839 --> 01:44:11,599
hasn't it yes oh my goodness

2283
01:44:15,729 --> 01:44:13,849
you know at least when people were using

2284
01:44:18,459 --> 01:44:15,739
clubs only one person could whack me

2285
01:44:21,399 --> 01:44:18,469
over the head at a time it's it's

2286
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:21,409
amazing damage you can do with words yes

2287
01:44:32,200 --> 01:44:25,610
white preschool so yeah I don't know I I

2288
01:44:34,899 --> 01:44:32,210
don't know I I think it would be what a

2289
01:44:36,609 --> 01:44:34,909
terrible what a terrible thing it would

2290
01:44:39,879 --> 01:44:36,619
be if we found out in 50 years that all

2291
01:44:42,939 --> 01:44:39,889
of this geopolitical anxiety was all

2292
01:44:45,220 --> 01:44:42,949
just a farce right that actually we've

2293
01:44:48,939 --> 01:44:45,230
had this technology or so long and again

2294
01:44:54,069 --> 01:44:48,949
from a pragmatic point of view you know

2295
01:44:56,020 --> 01:44:54,079
I don't know but that's really it

2296
01:44:57,220 --> 01:44:56,030
changes the way that we investigate if

2297
01:45:00,490 --> 01:44:57,230
it changes the way that we live our

2298
01:45:02,770 --> 01:45:00,500
lives anything else like that so I think

2299
01:45:06,010 --> 01:45:02,780
it's interesting but I don't know

2300
01:45:09,220 --> 01:45:06,020
necessarily if it's a I don't know a

2301
01:45:12,729 --> 01:45:09,230
useful Avenue of research I guess mm-hmm

2302
01:45:16,140 --> 01:45:12,739
at least it's it's useful but it's

2303
01:45:19,060 --> 01:45:16,150
useful in the same senses say

2304
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:19,070
metaphysics in philosophy is useful it's

2305
01:45:23,169 --> 01:45:21,530
interesting it teaches you things it

2306
01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:23,179
does teach you about yourself and and

2307
01:45:27,790 --> 01:45:25,130
potentially helps you answer other

2308
01:45:29,890 --> 01:45:27,800
questions but you're never gonna be you

2309
01:45:31,870 --> 01:45:29,900
know no one has ever made any money off

2310
01:45:33,700 --> 01:45:31,880
of metaphysics

2311
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:33,710
I think it's the same kind of thing here

2312
01:45:37,510 --> 01:45:35,449
where I'm not sure that that kind of

2313
01:45:39,910 --> 01:45:37,520
question or that kind of discussion is

2314
01:45:45,189 --> 01:45:39,920
gonna bring us any closer to answers on

2315
01:45:47,709 --> 01:45:45,199
the UFO question yeah yeah I got that so

2316
01:45:48,069 --> 01:45:47,719
I was just looking for another question

2317
01:45:51,580 --> 01:45:48,079
up here

2318
01:45:56,890 --> 01:45:51,590
I saw one earlier but so what do you

2319
01:45:58,000 --> 01:45:56,900
think is the future of the group you're

2320
01:46:01,149 --> 01:45:58,010
involved when we talked

2321
01:46:03,149 --> 01:46:01,159
earlier again Alejandro's on the it's a

2322
01:46:06,100 --> 01:46:03,159
board right now at this point isn't it

2323
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:06,110
yep and so can you talk a little bit

2324
01:46:13,330 --> 01:46:08,650
about that and the goals of that

2325
01:46:15,540 --> 01:46:13,340
organization so right now we are right

2326
01:46:18,899 --> 01:46:15,550
now we're pretty a relatively loosely

2327
01:46:22,930 --> 01:46:18,909
organized group of about 40 researchers

2328
01:46:26,290 --> 01:46:22,940
who are scientifically minded and kind

2329
01:46:28,060 --> 01:46:26,300
of faced towards very serious

2330
01:46:33,279 --> 01:46:28,070
investigations and discussions of the

2331
01:46:36,479 --> 01:46:33,289
UFO phenomena and so right now really I

2332
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:36,489
think we're the group hopes to be is

2333
01:46:41,649 --> 01:46:40,010
finding more kind of central members to

2334
01:46:44,979 --> 01:46:41,659
do these kinds of work these kind of

2335
01:46:46,750 --> 01:46:44,989
investigations and things and but right

2336
01:46:48,790 --> 01:46:46,760
now I think it's all it's all very in

2337
01:46:51,310 --> 01:46:48,800
flux you know but I would I would

2338
01:46:54,250 --> 01:46:51,320
suggest if if you're interested if you

2339
01:46:55,750 --> 01:46:54,260
are a scientifically minded or just a

2340
01:46:57,879 --> 01:46:55,760
serious investigator with a lot of you

2341
01:46:59,140 --> 01:46:57,889
know just a serious person who's

2342
01:46:59,970 --> 01:46:59,150
interested in getting involved in

2343
01:47:02,350 --> 01:46:59,980
learning about this stuff

2344
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:02,360
you know shoot the group an email it's

2345
01:47:07,029 --> 01:47:05,690
the SCU shoot me an email whatever I'll

2346
01:47:10,990 --> 01:47:07,039
put you in contact you'd Alejandro an

2347
01:47:13,930 --> 01:47:11,000
email you know because I do think it's

2348
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:13,940
it's important that we again build a

2349
01:47:17,020 --> 01:47:16,610
robust community doing this kind of

2350
01:47:24,279 --> 01:47:17,030
stuff

2351
01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:24,289
okay so SCU yes and and it's called it's

2352
01:47:30,879 --> 01:47:28,489
the it's the collation a scientific go

2353
01:47:33,279 --> 01:47:30,889
yeah scientific coalition for you if

2354
01:47:34,629 --> 01:47:33,289
evolution of so anyone can find that

2355
01:47:39,640 --> 01:47:34,639
website I'm just going to announce it

2356
01:47:42,660 --> 01:47:39,650
real quickly its Explorer s see you dot

2357
01:47:45,220 --> 01:47:42,670
org so yes there and check it out online

2358
01:47:49,259 --> 01:47:45,230
well that's that's interesting I'm glad

2359
01:47:52,299 --> 01:47:49,269
that's happening can anyone actually

2360
01:47:56,169 --> 01:47:52,309
contact someone there and talk about

2361
01:47:58,870 --> 01:47:56,179
cases or what is something they may have

2362
01:48:01,240 --> 01:47:58,880
some you know extra evidence on or

2363
01:48:05,799 --> 01:48:01,250
something like that or currently it's

2364
01:48:07,180 --> 01:48:05,809
currently it is again pretty currently

2365
01:48:09,669 --> 01:48:07,190
what the group hopes to do is kind of

2366
01:48:11,799 --> 01:48:09,679
have these independent researchers write

2367
01:48:14,020 --> 01:48:11,809
white papers write research but

2368
01:48:17,829 --> 01:48:14,030
I got it that go out to the public I got

2369
01:48:18,969 --> 01:48:17,839
it so in terms of actually investigating

2370
01:48:20,709 --> 01:48:18,979
cases that's still something that I

2371
01:48:26,099 --> 01:48:20,719
think is up in the air yeah right cuz

2372
01:48:30,689 --> 01:48:26,109
that that adds a layer yes of complexity

2373
01:48:33,579 --> 01:48:30,699
so so it's kind of a standalone sort of

2374
01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:33,589
work most of it almost more of a

2375
01:48:38,649 --> 01:48:36,530
think-tank I would say yeah Wow and

2376
01:48:43,629 --> 01:48:38,659
white papers other actually published

2377
01:48:45,009 --> 01:48:43,639
papers out there now they're both there

2378
01:48:46,750 --> 01:48:45,019
no there are a couple of papers that

2379
01:48:48,790 --> 01:48:46,760
were published by members by affiliates

2380
01:48:50,049 --> 01:48:48,800
for sure I don't think that are

2381
01:48:51,129 --> 01:48:50,059
available on the website just yet

2382
01:48:54,250 --> 01:48:51,139
and I don't think anything has been

2383
01:48:55,779 --> 01:48:54,260
officially published yet by the SCU but

2384
01:48:58,239 --> 01:48:55,789
there are things that people are working

2385
01:49:00,790 --> 01:48:58,249
on in writing I had an article that came

2386
01:49:03,250 --> 01:49:00,800
out on kind of the philosophical

2387
01:49:07,119 --> 01:49:03,260
viewpoint of UFO investigations that I

2388
01:49:08,649 --> 01:49:07,129
think we should take you know so there

2389
01:49:10,479 --> 01:49:08,659
is stuff coming along in the pipeline

2390
01:49:12,849 --> 01:49:10,489
and again if people want to get involved

2391
01:49:13,989 --> 01:49:12,859
I can't speak for the whole su but if

2392
01:49:15,250 --> 01:49:13,999
people want to get involved in some of

2393
01:49:16,419 --> 01:49:15,260
the work that we're trying to do some

2394
01:49:18,369 --> 01:49:16,429
the white papers we're trying to write

2395
01:49:21,579 --> 01:49:18,379
again shoot me an email

2396
01:49:22,419 --> 01:49:21,589
Chris F Cogswell at gmail.com all right

2397
01:49:25,599 --> 01:49:22,429
so I'm going to throw you another

2398
01:49:30,099 --> 01:49:25,609
softball here if you had to give your

2399
01:49:31,719 --> 01:49:30,109
best guess as a philosopher what do you

2400
01:49:35,319 --> 01:49:31,729
think people are seeing if they're

2401
01:49:37,089 --> 01:49:35,329
seeing you know I'm saying what do you

2402
01:49:43,750 --> 01:49:37,099
think people are seeing their

2403
01:49:47,049 --> 01:49:43,760
unexplainable once yeah yeah so yeah a

2404
01:49:49,449 --> 01:49:47,059
very easy question oh my goodness t I so

2405
01:49:54,069 --> 01:49:49,459
again just to put it in context I

2406
01:49:56,589 --> 01:49:54,079
definitely believe that you know 99% if

2407
01:49:58,599 --> 01:49:56,599
not more of the cases that come out

2408
01:50:00,819 --> 01:49:58,609
every year are probably miss

2409
01:50:03,329 --> 01:50:00,829
identification Zoar you know whatever

2410
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:03,339
tricks of the mind or what have you that

2411
01:50:12,149 --> 01:50:07,010
small percentage that's real honestly I

2412
01:50:13,989 --> 01:50:12,159
I can't say I don't think there's any I

2413
01:50:17,290 --> 01:50:13,999
don't think there's enough evidence

2414
01:50:21,639 --> 01:50:17,300
either way I think that whatever it is

2415
01:50:25,350 --> 01:50:21,649
is clearly intelligent I think whatever

2416
01:50:28,149 --> 01:50:25,360
it is is clearly capable of

2417
01:50:31,359 --> 01:50:28,159
playing I don't know if games is the

2418
01:50:33,070 --> 01:50:31,369
right word but certainly of playing on

2419
01:50:35,979 --> 01:50:33,080
the emotions of humans making them

2420
01:50:39,370 --> 01:50:35,989
frightened making them question their

2421
01:50:41,500 --> 01:50:39,380
own kind of sanity or viewpoint and I

2422
01:50:45,669 --> 01:50:41,510
believe that there is certainly some

2423
01:50:48,129 --> 01:50:45,679
kind of regardless of the commonalities

2424
01:50:49,419 --> 01:50:48,139
or not the common values regardless of

2425
01:50:51,250 --> 01:50:49,429
the differences between the cases that

2426
01:50:54,070 --> 01:50:51,260
have occurred over time there do seem to

2427
01:50:55,990 --> 01:50:54,080
be commonalities so all I can say for

2428
01:50:58,359 --> 01:50:56,000
certain is that I think there is a hard

2429
01:51:01,080 --> 01:50:58,369
kernel of reality in there somewhere

2430
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:01,090
what it is though I think it would be

2431
01:51:06,609 --> 01:51:03,290
it's the same thing as what's before the

2432
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:06,619
Big Bang right it could be anything the

2433
01:51:10,450 --> 01:51:08,090
only thing I think we can the only thing

2434
01:51:12,459 --> 01:51:10,460
I can maybe I'll make this like as

2435
01:51:15,339 --> 01:51:12,469
opposed to Descartes steam it I can call

2436
01:51:17,169 --> 01:51:15,349
this Cogswell's alien or something the

2437
01:51:19,570 --> 01:51:17,179
only thing I can be certain of is that

2438
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:19,580
I'm not the one abducting people in a

2439
01:51:27,609 --> 01:51:24,290
station that's filled are you sure I'm

2440
01:51:32,169 --> 01:51:27,619
trying like again almost wonder-percent

2441
01:51:34,959 --> 01:51:32,179
sure you know yeah I don't know I

2442
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:34,969
honestly I don't know but that's what is

2443
01:51:42,490 --> 01:51:40,489
so fascinating is who knows yeah yeah it

2444
01:51:46,479 --> 01:51:42,500
is that's what kind of keeps me going I

2445
01:51:48,669 --> 01:51:46,489
find it I find it really fascinating so

2446
01:51:50,910 --> 01:51:48,679
why don't you go ahead and give out your

2447
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:50,920
information I just heard you say you're

2448
01:51:57,790 --> 01:51:55,610
your email address how about your

2449
01:52:00,430 --> 01:51:57,800
website for your podcast yeah so the

2450
01:52:03,070 --> 01:52:00,440
website is the mad scientist podcast at

2451
01:52:06,189 --> 01:52:03,080
gmail.com you can also find us on

2452
01:52:07,930 --> 01:52:06,199
twitter at mad scientist pod and if you

2453
01:52:11,169 --> 01:52:07,940
search the mad scientist podcast and all

2454
01:52:14,500 --> 01:52:11,179
of your itunes aggregates SoundCloud

2455
01:52:16,089 --> 01:52:14,510
Spotify all of them we will show up

2456
01:52:17,970 --> 01:52:16,099
where our logo is the one with the

2457
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:17,980
jack-o'-lantern so it's easy to find

2458
01:52:23,430 --> 01:52:20,570
this week this this actually this past

2459
01:52:27,370 --> 01:52:23,440
month we have been covering a UFO case

2460
01:52:29,550 --> 01:52:27,380
from Claremont New Hampshire that's kind

2461
01:52:35,550 --> 01:52:29,560
of fallen into the dustbin of history

2462
01:52:38,200 --> 01:52:35,560
because this this investigator kind of

2463
01:52:39,160 --> 01:52:38,210
kind of changed from a very serious

2464
01:52:42,340 --> 01:52:39,170
investigator and

2465
01:52:44,830 --> 01:52:42,350
early life into a very metaphysical kind

2466
01:52:46,300 --> 01:52:44,840
of investigator later on so it's it's

2467
01:52:47,970 --> 01:52:46,310
fascinating though and it has a lot of

2468
01:52:51,459 --> 01:52:47,980
personal connections to my own story

2469
01:52:54,490 --> 01:52:51,469
because the farm where a lot of the

2470
01:52:57,220 --> 01:52:54,500
sightings in Claremont took place is a

2471
01:52:58,510 --> 01:52:57,230
farm that's now owned by my fiance's

2472
01:53:00,580 --> 01:52:58,520
grandma Wow

2473
01:53:03,160 --> 01:53:00,590
so yeah we've had more time to talk

2474
01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:03,170
about that because that's that's not too

2475
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:06,170
far away from where I am right now Chris

2476
01:53:09,700 --> 01:53:07,850
I want to thank you so much for being on

2477
01:53:12,189 --> 01:53:09,710
the show you were a great guest I really

2478
01:53:13,810 --> 01:53:12,199
really enjoyed you a lot oh no problem

2479
01:53:16,540 --> 01:53:13,820
thanks so much for having me anytime all

2480
01:53:18,790 --> 01:53:16,550
right all right you take care cool bye

2481
01:53:21,070 --> 01:53:18,800
all right everyone so that's it for the

2482
01:53:24,130 --> 01:53:21,080
show thanks so much for listening and

2483
01:53:25,870 --> 01:53:24,140
hanging in with us and we are gonna be

2484
01:53:29,620 --> 01:53:25,880
back next week we're going to be on

2485
01:53:32,470 --> 01:53:29,630
location in Exeter New Hampshire at Mack

2486
01:53:36,490 --> 01:53:32,480
Maloney with him we're going to be doing

2487
01:53:39,220 --> 01:53:36,500
a simulcast three-way simulcast show at

2488
01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:39,230
a radio station next week for those

2489
01:53:42,430 --> 01:53:41,210
people in youtube you can actually see

2490
01:53:44,380 --> 01:53:42,440
that we're going to be filming there at

2491
01:53:46,360 --> 01:53:44,390
the same time should be a lot of fun so

2492
01:53:47,500 --> 01:53:46,370
that's next Tuesday all right I want to

2493
01:53:50,890 --> 01:53:47,510
thank you when they helped out with the

2494
01:53:53,890 --> 01:53:50,900
show our Alejandro Rojas a course and

2495
01:53:56,370 --> 01:53:53,900
our guest Chris Cogswell I also want to

2496
01:54:02,080 --> 01:53:56,380
thank Evan for working in the background

2497
01:54:04,270 --> 01:54:02,090
and Bill over at kgr a radio and that's